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US/Israel conduct airstrikes on Iran again

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    What?

    The most high profile single case, off the top of my head, is the Iraq sanctions post 1990 - which killed 500,000 children alone in the 1990s (with adults it is more ofc). Thats one of the reasons why the 1990s is the worst decade in the graph.

    This toll was acknowledged by Albright later, who said it was a price she was willing to pay.

    So you're saying the correct deaths figure for the Iraq sanctions in the 1990s is zero children?

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,325 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Sanctions don't directly kill anyone. The keyword there is directly.

    Sanctions may indirectly cause different outcomes, indirectly given that a country may not have access to the free markets to buy goods and services that will improve their nation's lot. Think the latest high-tech cancer drugs for example.

    The case about Iraq and that figure is largely debunked.

    https://www.lse.ac.uk/news/latest-news-from-lse/iraqi-government-misreported-child-mortality-lse-research-finds


    Post-2003 surveys, including UNICEF's own Multiple Indicator Cluster Surveys (2006, 2011) and the Iraq Living Conditions Survey (2004), show child under-5 mortality actually fell from 56 per 1,000 births pre-sanctions to about 40 per 1,000 during 1995-2000, contradicting the inflated 1999 UNICEF/Iraqi Ministry figures


    It seems you swallow propaganda from authoritarian states whole.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    I found that report .

    Could Saddam have exaggerated the numbers. yes, that's plausible.
    Given this report is about a highly political issue;
    Also given this is a British academic and that Britain was bombing Iraq regularly throughout the 1990s

    Do you know if this report is

    a) peer reviewed and more importantly

    b) peer reviewed by academics from countries in the Global South

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    Lies, damned lies and statistics, indeed!

    Dennis Halliday (Irish, still living) was the United Nations Humanitarian Coordinator in Iraq from 1 September 1997 until 1998. He was the first of 2 successive UN coordinators for the sanctions program to quit under protest; He called the Iraqi sanctions genocidal.

    Unlike statistic oriented Dyson, Halliday and his successor were on the ground in Iraq.
    From a 2021 interview – 4 years after the Dyson report in 2017.

    When I got to Iraq in 1998, the hospitals in Baghdad, and also of course in Basra and other cities, were full of children suffering from leukemia. Those children, we reckon perhaps 200,000 children, died of leukemia. At the same time, Washington and London withheld some of the medicines and treatment components that leukemia requires, again, it seemed, in a genocidal manner, denying Iraqi children the right to remain alive. 

    So that is approximately 200,000 children many who were not in the narrow under-5 mortality cohort Dyson would have been focusing on; Also the words cancer & leukemia are not in Dyson’s statistical report.

    Had these 200,000 deaths anything to do with the US sanctions in your opinion?

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Looks like more illegal sanctions and economic warfare coming. Regime change failed again, not the best idea to bomb them unless we evacuate every base within 3000 km so we will threaten all of Iran's trading partners instead.

    It's like watching a modern day Nero playing the fiddle while Rome burns. No doubt others will follow suit shortly.

    sanctions.jpg

    The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. — Antonio Gramsci



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,231 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Can you tell me why so many children had leukemia in Iraq during those years?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,325 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Lies, damned lies and statistics, indeed!

    Pot Kettle and LOL!

    Here is another study from the BMJ

    https://gh.bmj.com/content/2/2/e000311



    In conclusion, the rigging of the 1999 Unicef survey was an especially masterful fraud. That it was a deception is beyond doubt, although it is still not generally known. However, when the UN realised its mistake it led to a sudden and large upward revision of its estimate of life expectation in Iraq during 2000–2005, from 57 to 70 years.

    Now given we have newer data, do you still reject it? If so why?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    I’m not sure but suspect No 1 would be Depleted Uranium dust from Desert Storm 1991

    During the Gulf War, American and British forces introduced armor-piercing ammunition made of depleted uranium, a radioactive and toxic waste. By war's end, more than 290,000 kilograms of depleted uranium contaminated equipment and the soil on the battlefields of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and southern Iraq.

    Depleted uranium weapons contaminate impact areas with extremely fine radioactive and toxic dust. U.S. Army testing found that 18 to 70% of a depleted uranium penetrator rod burns and oxidizes into extremely small particles during impact.[13] The impact of one 120mm depleted uranium penetrator fired from an American Abrams tank therefore creates between 900 and 3,400 grams of uranium oxide dust. U.S. Army testing further found "[t]he DU oxide aerosol formed during the impact of DU into armor has a high percentage of respirable size particles (50 to 96%)," and 52 to 83% of those respirable size particles are insoluble in lung fluids.[14] Respirable size particles (less than 5 microns in diameter) are easily inhaled or ingested. Insoluble particles are not readily excreted from the body, and may remain in the lungs or other organs for years.
    Recent research found depleted uranium particles may remain in the lungs if inhaled,

    Also

    Official Iraqi government statistics show that, prior to the outbreak of the First Gulf War in 1991, the rate of cancer cases in Iraq was 40 out of 100,000 people. By 1995, it had increased to 800 out of 100,000 people, and, by 2005, it had doubled to at least 1,600 out of 100,000 people. Current estimates show the increasing trend continuing.

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,231 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    That IS the Dyson 2017 statistic report that was referenced in your LSE article 5 posts up and that I also linked to 4 posts up.
    Here are 3 critical peer review type responses to it by the reddit user YukikoKoiSan in this thread.

    Obviously a reddit review is not sufficient, so that is why I asked whether this research was peer reviewed especially by relevant academics based in Global South universities -This safeguard being necessarily required to balance out the highly political nature of this exclusively British statistical research.

    If it hasn’t been peer reviewed to the highest level then it can be dismissed.
    So I’ll ask again - has it been peer reviewed ?

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    Iran is supplying weapons and drones that kill innocent people in Ukraine every day. Russia is the biggest threat to our and European stability, anyone in Ireland defending the Iranian or Venezuelan regime can get to ****.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,325 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    It's like watching a modern day Nero playing the fiddle while Rome burns. No doubt others will follow suit shortly.

    Are you talking about the Mullahs who rule Iran here?

    They destroyed the country, and are reaping what they sow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Randycove


    retreating Iraqi forces also set light to 700 oil wells, which burnt over a million barrels a day of crude oil per day. An environmental atrocity like that is bound to have a huge negative impact on the regions health as well



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    anyone in Ireland defending the Iranian or Venezuelan regime can get to ****.


    Anyone getting their Iran geopolitics from US/UK/Irish mainstream media (better described as ruling class media) can do the same Pal.

    It would be like Irish people forming their beliefs about the famine & its aftermath in the 1840’s & 1850s exclusively from British millionaire owned newspapers & magazines.

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,325 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Yea, a Reddit user who says

    ..it's hard to say how much falsification went on. Tyson and Cetorelli in my view overstate their case


    So, the user admits that falsification went on and that the original report of excess death is overstated…

    Lets just agree that your original premise is wrong and return to present day.

    What do you make of the admission by Iranian officials that 2,000 people have been killed. Do you think the regime is correct to kill protestors?
    https://www.reuters.com/world/china/iranian-mp-warns-greater-unrest-urging-government-address-grievances-2026-01-13/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭brickster69


    The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. — Antonio Gramsci



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,325 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Right, so the entire coverage of Iran from anyone from Europe, the UK, Ireland or the West in general is wrong.
    But should we believe the state TV reports that are controlled by one of the most authoritarian regimes on the planet?

    Why are you an apologist for a regime that has admitted to killing its own civilians?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    By all means hold on to your belief that there were zero Iraqi child deaths from US/EU sanctions - based on a likely pay-for-play non-peer reviewed imperialist obfuscation / whitewash report. Discount all other humanitarian reports, all other academic research that says the opposite of what you (want to) believe.

    Finally, I might be misreading it, but Dyson is saying child mortality reduced in the 1990s during the sanctions.

    Despite the 290 tons of depleted uranium, planatery-scale poison from oil well fires, people forced to drink water from rivers with toxic poison in them – and then dying days later.

    No, apparently US/EU sanctions on a bombed & destroyed country actually reduces that country’s child deaths.

    What a load of preposterous bollox.
    Yes, that’s more than enough about (the Iraqi) Western sanctions.

    Why are you an apologist for a regime that has admitted to killing its own civilians?

    Do you even acknowledge that the US/UK has ever done a colour revolution anywhere?

    Are colour revolutions a non-existent concept in your world outlook?

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    New York times saying as many as 3000 feared dead in Iran. I thought Trump said if any harm came to protesters that the US would be locked and loaded to retaliate?

    ( article paywalled )

    NYT Iran 13012026.png

    https://www.nytimes.com/international/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,325 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    based on a likely pay-for-play non-peer reviewed imperialist obfuscation

    If you have proof that the study/rebuttal was paid for some bad actors by all means show us the evidence.
    Other wise, your rantings are that of a conspiracy theorist.

     Dyson is saying child mortality reduced in the 1990s during the sanctions.

    No, the UNICEF says as much.

    Average Iraq Life Expectancy actually rose between 1990 and 2010 when sanctions took place.

    image.png


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭rogber


    We all know that if anything is to motivate Trump to take out the Iranian government, it certainly won't be empathy for innocent civilian victims. The man does not know the meaning of the word.

    Maybe if the Swedes promise him a Nobel he might do something?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,325 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Do you even acknowledge that the US/UK has ever done a colour revolution anywhere?

    Why are you defending a regime that kills its own civilians in a mass scale?
    Are you saying the regime is correct to kill protestors?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    If CIA/MI6 colour revolutions don’t exist in your understanding of geopolitics, there isn’t enough shared reality to continue any meaningful discussion.

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,325 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The average Iranian lacks agency, so there must be some external foreign factor stoking the flames?
    Am I right?

    Do you think the CIA and MI6 are that powerful?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,557 ✭✭✭silliussoddius




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,026 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    In the background of all this is the record breaking drought which isn't gonna get any better, when harvests fail due to a shortage of water **** will really hit the fan



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,557 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Shur why would they focus on that when they can send money to sh1tty organizations to fight the great satan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,357 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    What can't Mossad do? They probably feck with the weather to make sure it's always raining here.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    Surely, at a minimum you can accept that 1953 was a sucessfull CIA colour revolution that returned Iranain oil to its ""“ rightful owners ”"“ the Anglo-Iraninan Oil Company aka BP plc.

    In doing so, replacing a democratically elected & popular gov’t with a US/UK puppet mass-murderer for 26 years.
    Because the CIA itself openly admitted it ‘did’ that coup within the last 10 years.
    If the CIA can admit it surely you can (its not that big a step).

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,557 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Pointing out what everyone knows happened in the past isn't the gotcha you think it is.



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