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United States as a Rogue state

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Unfortunately when you get accused of this ad naseum it needs over explaining. It blows my mind how out of context many of my posts are taken. Or the assumptions made. People want it to be true so bad but I'd be lying if I said it was true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,701 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    lol kind of had to.

    It was relevant, as you said Denmark should have no claim there at all (completely ignoring all history), and later used the "North American plate" (proximity I suppose) as a rationale for this Trump claim over it.

    On the "rogue state" thread subject, was reading the Irish Times today. Fintan O'Toole mentioned in context of this new expansionist/militarist US foreign policy that Ireland is in the Western hemisphere, and also that part of the island is on the NA continental plate!

    God help us all so…😬

    edit: was looking at wiki and I think the IT got that wrong anyway (the NA plate part, not the hemisphere - I was puzzled as I didn't think we were anywhere near some plate boundaries, we don't have active volcanism or strong earthquakes).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_plate



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,222 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Yeah the NA plate and Eurasian plate meet in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. It does cut right through Iceland so the Yanks might take the western half of Iceland next...

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,285 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    The madness of America isn’t that it’s starting fights and creating divisions and hostilities with other countries. It’s biggest mess/wars/divisions/ is amongst its own people..it’s in a real bad way!!! It’s internally rogue!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    And I'd say invariably Trump fans have a tendency to downplay being a fan. You won't even go as far as saying that it's unacceptable that he's threatening the invasion of Greenland. Instead you just went off on tangent after tangent. It's not business as usual that Trump is threatening invasion of a territory of an ally. The fact you're pretending it is batshit.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,121 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    You're right — and we know Trump and his administration are not playing 4D chess here. It's just Trump being Trump and doing / saying anything that makes him feel strong, Miller living out his genuine imperialist fetish roleplay, and Vance / Rubio et al being snivelling sycophants.

    There is no big plan here, and the ostensible plan doesn't even make sense to me. The Americans don't just have hard power, they also mastered soft power in the post War world — whereby building a harmonious prosperous world (for the West anyway) was a question of deepening links, creating trade interdependencies and creating alignments with other countries. When we look at China, that's exactly what they have done too. For all their hard power, they have also embraced soft power and 'making friends' (see the USSR/Russia for the results of overreliance on hard power and neglecting soft power).

    While Vance pushes this narrative of Europe being more militarily independent, I am still not convinced that a much stronger Europe militarily is actually beneficial to US interests. The subservience-of-sorts of Europe towards America gives the Americans a powerful ally over whom they hold great leverage. By signalling to Europe that America is not the the stalwart trustworthy ally it may have been thought of, the US risks an outcome where Europe becomes more willing to assert itself against American interests. The Trump Administration's so-called foreign policy seems to assume that Europe will build its military power while also remaining in thrall to US interests.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,375 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    We need to bear in mind that the US designed the postwar West. They did so in such a way that it would guarantee their perpetual hegemony and now they're wailing about the costs they've had to pay to maintain said hegemony. Everything about the status quo is on them and it made them the richest country in history.

    The problem is that fascism exists in a state of perpetual conflict and new enemies are always needed. They can only go so far in their infantile war on "woke" without changing the constitution. Obviously, the GOP has been stacking the deck for generations but that only goes so far.

    The collapse in living standards, brought about in large party by US corporate lobbying and the GOP, has fuelled populism which has in turn turned against the global free trade model which made Americans stinking rich to begin with. It's only going to make them poorer but such are the cultural constraints on free speech and the prevailing anti-intellectual culture that they won't realise it until it's too late.

    A much stronger Europe is only beneficial to the US if it remains subservient to the US, ie buying US arms and materiel. In the current climate, that's not politically feasible. Any trade barriers the US erects can go both ways. I even read the other day that there might be an EU alternative to Visa and Mastercard in the works. A stronger Europe will be pressured into spending EU taxpayers' money at home instead of abroad.

    We saw a lot of this with Brexit. It made those of us stupid enough to live in the UK poorer, nobody benefitted and very few people now question it as it approaches the tenth anniversary of that abomination of a referendum.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    North and South Ireland united as an American autonomous region?!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,750 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Hate to break it to you, people are just reading your posts and seeing what you are doing pretty easily.

    If everyone is taking them out of context, what does that tell you?

    And yet again, you over explain. The gig has been up a long time



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    Cell phone footage reveals that after one of the agents yells, “Get out of the **** car,” Good briefly reverses, turns the steering wheel towards the passenger side and drives ahead, after she smiled and said, “That’s fine, dude. I’m not mad at you.” As Ross fired the shots at her, he could be heard to yell, “**** bitch.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    The thing is this discussion isn't about who is a isn't a Trump fan. You're also allowed to be a trump fan in our society. There are plenty of them. But if people will throw this irrelevant tangent at me I'll correct them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,684 ✭✭✭amacca


    I hope you are correct, it strikes me as a reasonable argument once the personality is gone so too goes the cult....

    Hopefully.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,750 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    You're also allowed to be a trump fan in our society. There are plenty of them.

    Here you go again. Trying to normalise it so that when you "agree" with his policies, you can say that but then just revert to saying "ah but I am not a fan, read my posts".

    You're going to great lengths to deny what Stevie Wonder could see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭threeball


    If they take Greenland then they'll definitely take Iceland. It gives them complete control of the north Atlantic and the artic shipping routes that are opening up. Much easier to take and hold also.

    We could make their life hell in Greenland. Iceland, you wouldn't have a hope.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Normalise it? It's pretty normal in this world. Million's upon millions support him. I'm not one though and would have no issue saying it. I've no issue making comments here that get 1/2 likes but the replies to me get 40. I've nothing to gain by not just saying I'm a fan. I'll continue to correct this falsehood.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,750 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    And even more over explaining.

    You’re fooling no one lad. Be good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    When people repeat the same misinformation ad naseum it needs to be over explained and laid out as simple as possible. I have some very controversial opinions on this site and never shied away from them. Saying I'm a fan of trump would be small fish in comparison. But I'm not so what can you do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,222 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    They won't take Greenland or Iceland. Honestly that's crazy talk.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,701 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    He (Trump) is serious about Greenland I think, just as serious as he was regarding removing Maduro, which happened in the end.

    Depends now really on how sycophantic the rest of this admin. of greedy idiots and the military top brass are, if he gets impatient and orders a US "Special Military Operation" to seize it once trying to buy it/bully Denmark to hand it over (like a trophy or a prize he covets) is not going anywhere.

    He fear of/unfamiliarity with breaking out the US military hammer to get what he wants if the other methods fail is dissipating and he's actually becoming enthusiastic about it instead IMO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Yep I think the most likely thing to prevent an invasion is fear from the GOP that it hits them in the pockets.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,222 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    No. Denmark will still own it. There will no invasion. It doesn't play at all.

    They will do a deal for everything he wants - mining rights, new ports, exclusive access (no similar China/ Russia deals allowed), increased military foothold.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,701 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Possibly. Also I now think a European/NATO tripwire group and a few ships that US military units tasked with taking Trump's "prize" for him would have to attack first will help stiffen resolve + aid arguments of those in the US military or the admin. who don't want this craziness to progress any further.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,375 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The whole thing is just so f*cking stupid.

    The US is very heavily dependent on free trade and foreign investment. The second he pulls the trigger on this, the EU is going to hit them with the worse tariffs and barriers in its history. The US will strike back. We'll all suffer terribly and all so one of the worst human beings in the world can rape a country for its minerals which it will then be unable to sell, all the while tanking the economy.

    I read a book about trade some time ago. It was only 200 or so pages long and it's made me feel like I'm smarter than most politicians, honestly.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,701 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    US already has all (or most of?) that as far as I understand, and it has been explained to him I am sure, many times, but the crazy train just kept rolling on!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 599 ✭✭✭myfreespirit


    I would tend to agree with your analysis - it seems the European leadership don't want to confront US imperialism and tell them to fúck right off. Trump will get what he wants merely by bullying Denmark and Greenland



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,267 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    I wouldn't mind our government sitting out paddys day this year



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,701 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    It's okay…some "citizen journalists" + friends of Elon off X and maybe Conor McGregor (again) can go over to represent Ireland instead, and White House will be more than fine with that (probably)!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,222 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    No they had the ability to set up as many military bases as they wanted (as long as they asked permission first). They want more than military bases.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭yagan


    I dipped into Eric Hoffer's book The True Believer published in 1951.

    From part 73

    The Americans are poor haters in international affairs because of their innate feeling of superiority over all foreigners. Should Americans begin to hate foreigners whole-heartedly, it will be an indication that they have lost confidence in their own way of life.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,701 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    The military bases are covered, as you agree. They can mine and build stuff there already (if Greenland and Denmark are ok with it, until this past year or so at least, I bet they would have much preferred US investors over Chinese etc.).

    They just have to operate in the "normal" way a US company (with or without supports/incentives from their own govt. or Denmark/Greenland) would do it anywhere in the EU countries I expect.

    I think Trump just wants all this stuff for himself (or his friends) for free, and doesn't like the idea of negotiating with weaker, inferior parties over it.

    Conquest of land, and dealing with people living on it as you see fit is the ultimate theft. He'd probably also get a massive high from being a President who increased the size of the US territory - having that as part of his legacy.

    See "When you're a star, they let you do it!", and his awe over Putin's "savvy + genius" move to invade and take land off Ukraine etc. for evidence of the mindset operating here.



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