Donald Trump the Megathread part II - Mod Warning updated in OP 12/2/26

Particularly as Renee's wife was recorded by him on his phone letting him know that they never changed the license plate on the car while they were standing behind the car as he was making a record of it on his phone so that if he wanted, he could trace their address by checking the licence plate details for the state records.

Do you think the ice agent had any other options?

I had a debate with my friend about the definition of fascism. We both used various sources and reached the conclusion that there is no conclusion. I don’t think that we can reach an all encompassing definition of fascism. What we can identify is the cardinal hallmark of fascism- across all regimens it seems to be characterised by dehumanisation. When we start ranking humanity, in terms of the aspirational and the unclean, then this is a society in serious decay.

The problem with this form of morality is that we rank according to value judgements. What a society deems to be beneficial today, may not be beneficial tomorrow. The incarceration of multiple people in the mother-baby homes arose from society’s genuine belief that they were protecting the babies from the sins of the parent. Equally, value judgements vary across culture. What is right today may be woefully wrong tomorrow.

Life is sacred to all. If a society cannot protect this privilege then we are on a downward spiral. The loss of life is irreversible and cannot be undone if evidence exonerates the person. The only time that the loss of life is permissible is when there is a genuine harm to life (then it falls under the remit of the doctrine of double effect). But again, even medieval knights would try to maim rather than kill. There seems to my uneducated eye a dearth of evidence to support that there was a genuine threat to life. And now, the kids are left without a mother. Justice does not make swift judgement, because the consequences of getting it wrong are too grave for society. Less than 30 seconds ruined the lives of so many of Good’s family.

Finally, the real reason that fascism is so caustic is because freedom which is unequally distributed between members of society is too arbitrary and unstable. What is acceptable on one day to one group, may change the following day. The purpose of justice in a society is not to terrorise the populace. It’s function is too encourage its citizens to live within the parameters of a good society so that all may benefit from the justice

Thanks for the correction, I misread.

The intersection of corporations and war started with the Hanseatic League in Germany and Baltics which were members of the league. They waged war against countries that tried to restrict their commercial rights, defeating England and Denmark with their navies.

Lafter on the East India Company was licensed by Elizabeth I in 1601 to found colonies in return for a monopoly on the trade with them.

What Trump is doing in Venezuela has echoes of this. He says the regime regime has agreed to trade it with the US in a range of products. That sounds like colonial protectorates and colonies that were not allowed trade with the so called mother country.

The fact you have people on here, who presumably have no real skin in the game, justifying the murder in the face of cast iron proof that it was completely unjustified is illustrative of the fact that people believe what they want. It's a taster of why and how so many Americans will swallow whatever lies, mistruths and gaslighting the President and his cronies will feed them.

X is mainly bots. Why would you even think you'd get a rational conversation on it? It's a cess pit.

Smerconish on CNN reporting today on welfare fraud scandal in Minnesota. NY Times report on it at link.

Becoming a partisan issue. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent calling Minnesota "Ground Zero" for welfare fraud. Trump admin claims its linked to the Somalian community there.

Trump has cancelled SNAP funding to Minnesota over this.

Federal investigators first released large-scale welfare fraud in Minnesota in 2022 through the Feeding Our Future case, a scheme estimated to have taken about $250 million in taxpayer money. Rollins said 78 people have been charged so far.

In mid-December, First Assistant US Attorney Joe Thompson said that $9 billion or more in federal funds given to 14 state-run programs since 2018 may have been stolen. According to Rollins, Minnesota failed to take basic steps to prevent fraud even after these revelations.

When I first heard this a few weeks ago I thought it was rightwing conspiracy theory. But now Smerconish is reporting on it on CNN. Smerconish calling it "the tip of the iceberg".

A few days ago, Governor Tim Walz announced he would not run for a third term. Was this a factor? Maybe. Minnesota has not voted for a Republican for president since Nixon in 1972, but they have in the past elected Republican Governors e.g. Tim Pawlenty in the Obama years, and Senators. Currently both Senators and the Governor are Democrats. The state legislature is closely divided though, and presidential elections there since 2000 have tended to be close except in Obama years.

CBS report on it too.

Theres a book which outlines the 12 signs of fascisim. I think they're ticking all the boxes.

• Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Use of patriotic slogans, symbols, and songs to create a unifying national identity.
• Disdain for Human Rights: Encouraging citizens to ignore civil liberties for the sake of "security" or "need".
• Identification of Enemies as a Unifying Cause: Rallies the populace against perceived common threats, such as ethnic or religious minorities.
• Rampant Sexism: Rigid enforcement of traditional gender roles and opposition to reproductive rights.
• Controlled Mass Media: Direct or indirect censorship and regulation of news outlets to align with the government narrative.
• Obsession with National Security: Using fear as a tool to motivate and control the masses.
• Religion and Government Intertwined: Utilizing religious rhetoric and terminology to manipulate public opinion.
• Corporate Power Protected: Maintaining mutually beneficial relationships with the business aristocracy.
• Labor Power Suppressed: Eliminating or severely restricting labor unions, as they are seen as a threat to the ruling elite.
• Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: Open hostility toward higher education, academia, and free expression in the arts.
• Obsession with Crime and Punishment: Giving police nearly limitless power while encouraging the public to overlook abuses.
• Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Appointing associates to government positions and using authority to protect them from accountability. 

that is a despicable response from the friend but not really relevant here

Not just a particular group - literally anyone outside the nationalist bubble can be perceived as a threat or an enemy, even ordinary fellow citizens.

The assumption might have been that the MAGA crowd hate only immigrants and minorities, but now we see they hate virtually anyone who is not a Trump supporter.

The constant resorting to lethal force in the US in my opinion only escalates things. In Ireland we manage with an unarmed police force, barring a handful of situations like the hostage siege where John Carty was killed by the Emergency Response Unit. On the other hand, its a heavily armed society with more guns than people.

That's completely irreverent to the point I made.

It does seem empathy for the victim depends on some people's politics.

that’s what’s disappointing about this thread posts - seems if you side with ICE agent that makes you a maga supporting republican.

it’s possible to be in the centre and judge each incident on its own merits.

Dave Smith on Theo Vin podcast is a good recent example of this.