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Game changing battery from Donut ?

  • 05-01-2026 06:02PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭


    Seems too good to be true, available immediately!

    Claims :

    Exceptional Energy Density: Delivering 400 Wh/kg of energy density, it allows for significantly longer range or smaller, lighter battery packs without architectural compromises.
    Ultra-Fast Charging: Capable of a full charge in as little as 5 minutes. In the Verge TS Pro, this enables adding 300 km (186 miles) of range in under 10 minutes.
    Extreme Longevity: Designed for up to 100,000 cycles with minimal capacity fade, providing a lifespan that effectively outlasts the vehicle itself.
    Superior Safety & Stability: By using a non-flammable solid electrolyte, it eliminates risks of thermal runaway and battery fires. It also maintains over 99% capacity retention in extreme temperatures ranging from -30°C to over 100°C.
    Production Readiness: Unlike many experimental solid-state prototypes, this battery is available for production today. It is already implemented in the first generation of production vehicles, such as the Verge TS Pro motorcycle shipping in early 2026.
    Sustainability & Cost: The battery is 100% green, manufactured from abundant materials rather than rare or geopolitically sensitive resources. Donut Lab states its manufacturing costs are lower than current lithium-ion batteries



«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,038 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Even if it does seem too good to be true, it'll likely happen for them faster than it will for Toyota



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,825 ✭✭✭plodder


    The slick marketing reminds me a bit of the Irish company that claimed to have invented a perpetual motion machine. A lot of sceptical comments on the videos too.

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,264 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    How do I get one?

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,567 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.electrive.com/2026/01/05/verge-motorcycles-switches-to-in-house-solid-state-batteries/

    Some more info, doesn't mention the materials used in the battery except to say they're environmentally friendly and geopolitically safe

    Presumably that means no rare earth materials, which seems unbelievable

    Worth noting that Verge production volumes are pretty low. I actually can't find any official figures but they mention 2000+ drivers which seems pretty modest

    Assuming 1000 bikes per year with the larger 33kWh battery that's an annual production of 33MWh of batteries per year

    Bit of context, Tesla Gigafactory Nevada produces over 35GWh per year. A casual 1000 times size difference and possibly a lot wider

    However, if the battery does everything it promises I would expect many other manufacturers to jump on board and scale production rapidly

    The EVs of 2030 could be very different to the EVs of 2026

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,126 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    I read somewhere that SSD technology in many cases will require up to 1kg of silver and that if 20% of current battery production used that technology that it would use up 100% of current silver production. I imagine, however, that it is much easier to produce than rare earths, less processing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,567 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Well it's a lot less rare for starters, plus there's a lot of it already available

    Without knowing the ratio of silver to other material in the battery it's hard to gauge

    There's already a lot of pressure on silver though, it's still used a lot in electronics and we've already seen a few companies effectively buy up the global supply of silicon for the next few years

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭evftw


    There are no rare earths on Li batteries anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭celtic_oz




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭evftw


    No Lithium, the plot thickens. 11C charge rate, 100000 cycle life. Cells are in production at GWh scale in Finland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    Seems to be some question over the "no lithium" when I asked AI :

    • "Geopolitically Safe" and Abundant: The battery is made entirely from abundant, affordable, and "geopolitically safe" materials.
    • No Rare/Sensitive Elements: It explicitly avoids rare earth elements and sensitive minerals common in standard EV batteries, such as cobalt, manganese, and reportedly lithium (though some sources conflict on the absence of lithium).
    • Nanoprinted Structure: Clues from technical discussions suggest the battery uses a "nanoprinted" manufacturing process, which allows it to be scaled to major production volumes and formed into custom geometries.
    • Solid Electrolyte: It eliminates flammable liquid electrolytes entirely, which removes the risk of thermal runaway and allows the battery to operate at extreme temperatures (-30°C to over 100°C) without degradation.
    • No Metallic Dendrites: The material design prevents the formation of metallic dendrites, a common cause of failure in other solid-state prototypes.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,825 ✭✭✭plodder


    A more sceptical view:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/QuantumScape/comments/1q4w1dq/scam_alert_red_flags_all_over_donut_labs_and/

    The announcement the other day did seem timed to hit CES and I'm still scratching my head wondering how a company that might well have innovated with electric motors, suddenly produces a breakthrough in batteries which is a totally different technology. Though there are doubts about the motor innovation as well.

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    Lithium absolutely denied in this video! ( should start at 6:37 )



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,564 ✭✭✭positron


    Big if true. And if true, all our cars have just become obsolete. I don't mind though - this sounds amazing!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Not obsolete. Worst case, outdated battery tech, cells could be upgraded. I certainly would have no need to change my cars anytime soon. Would you?

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Interesting POV from that guy Ryan who seems to have an honest clue about what's going on here. He suggests the battery is most likely a capacitor and that the name for battery is just being used interchangeably. The charging specs align, but iirc, capacitors don't have high energy density, so would take up more space and be a greater mass, nullifying the claims of space/mass saving.

    Interesting break-through if real. What will the ICE heads have left as an excuse when an EV has more range and can fill as fast, or faster than petrol/diesel?

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,507 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    I'm sure Mad_Lad will find something.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,038 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Cars are an ever evolving technology, we always knew batteries were going to improve over time.

    A car bought this year won't become obsolete until price friendly variations of this battery come in, I give it 10 years, at which point the car would be looking at getting an upgrade anyway

    If you consider the leaf and Model S were around since 2012 and the budget friendlies really only started coming on stream with MG in 2023 you'll see it takes a long time for a car to become obsolete



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,567 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    There was a similar claim a while ago about a super capacitor that would make batteries obsolete

    One interesting thing I learned was that capacitors and batteries kind of converge as their capacity grows

    Personally I'm very on the skeptical side of the fence until I see some independent verifications

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,567 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    The timing is quite a red flag alone, they wouldn't be the first company to time their announcements to juice the share price

    Then again, there's plenty of examples in scientific research where a group has taken a different approach to a problem and it has paid off well for them

    So... wait and see is my view. I wouldn't be rushing out to buy a Verge motorcycle anytime soon on the back of that announcement

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,825 ✭✭✭plodder


    I think the company is privately owned. But the thing to look out for could be an investment pitch, maybe aimed at the general public, like an IPO, "to bring the tech to the next stage". CES is the ideal place to launch something like that. The red flag will be in flames at that point. Could be wrong of course. The sign that it's real, would be them selling out to one of the big auto manufacturers. They wouldn't be easily fooled.

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,250 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    According to the reddit post linked above, there don't seem to be (m)any patents lodged for it so you'd have to question the veracity of the claims



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭evftw


    Will be cool if this turns out to a super capacitor, but called a battery, with similar energy density to actual solid state batteries. That would definitely explain how it's able to charge so quickly and the almost absurd cycle life. Nanotech, maybe carbon based was mentioned as the tech. If that's the case one thing not mentioned is the self discharge rate due to a leakage.

    Verge and Donut labs are related. The bikes have already been on sale for a while using the standard NMC packs. If this is an elaborate scam it will be revealed soon.



  • Subscribers Posts: 32,919 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    I'll take this with the massive pinch of salt usually reserved for the "seems too good to be true" claims, but hopefully in 5-10 years we will be at the stage where there are real world batteries that can charge very fast and have more capacity which are smaller than current ones. That will be the real tipping point to make ICE cars mostly for hobbyists and enthusiasts. I'm not holding my breath on this current thing being that though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    I'll be holding out for a few years anyway. By then, the flux capacitor should be coming on stream.

    image.png

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭SteM


    Seems too good to be true, but I can't understand the benefit of this being a complete lie. They're a company legit trying to market a new motor type. They're telling people this battery will be in bikes within the first quarter of this year, so it will be available to be torn down very soon. Surely if it was BS they'd be caught quickly and kill their whole motor business straight away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭evftw


    When do you think a flux capacitor will be out? We already passed the 2025 and no flying cars anywhere to be seen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    image.png

    On the Flux….I've come back from the future to let you know. Soon 😅

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,567 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Nikola motors kept going for years on lies

    Same for Fisker

    WeWork was a pretty good money maker for Adam Neumann, even when he got fired

    Seems like for these scam artist founder/CEO types it's about living the high life on someone else's buck

    And sure, if they manage to deprive some billionaire backed VC fund of money, I'm not going to feel much sympathy

    I don't think the logic of getting caught ever enters their mind, they just pick up and move on to the next idea

    The big problem is that it diverts funding and resources away from companies doing actual research into the technology and slow them down as a result

    Now, maybe Donut are on the money and the battery does everything it promises. I honestly hope it does because that really would be a game changer

    But, I'm still skeptical until I see it in action

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭SteM


    Yes, I get all of that and could understand it if they were telling people battery production would be coming in 3 or 4 years time. Batteries are due in those bikes in the next 3 months though, so it's not like there is a long lead to keep people strung along before they're caught.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭evftw


    One way would be to speculate that Verge, the bike arm, was about to die and then get all the third parties to order Verge cycles for analysis. Then disappear with the loot from the orders. All of the battery manufacturers and car companies must have made an order by now using the company platinum Visa. 500x€40k=nice retirement.

    "You're number 10 in line, expected delivery on 27th March."



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