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Energy infrastructure

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,988 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    More like they weren't going to make any money, cheaper to lose 35 million. Another green folly.

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    No mention that they were scared of spiders either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Maybe slightly off topic, but is there a thread on the emerging kite technology?

    What do people think of the viability of this to be scaled up off the west coast?


    https://ie.rwe.com/projects-and-locations/airborne-wind-energy/


    Surely makes more sense than 1000ft high wind turbines?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭tppytoppy


    https://www.irishtimes.com/environment/2025/04/11/connemara-offshore-wind-farm-will-not-go-ahead-dealing-blow-to-governments-climate-targets/

    How quickly you choose to forget.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 98,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Various types of kites have been around for a while. One interesting aspect is that given the cloud cover here most of the time you wouldn't see them. Otherwise they'd have to be better than the standard three bladed wind turbines that everyone uses.

    Earlier report https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2025/0714/1523349-kite-flying-electricity/

    image.png

    https://spectrum.ieee.org/co2-battery-energy-storage

    It's been in use since July. 20MW x 10 hours. 200MWh of storage on 5 hectares of flat land.

    However, it's only 30% cheaper than lithium batteries. But it could scale better. One reason to use CO2 is because it can be stored as a liquid under pressure ( limits of physics 75 bar / 31°C ) , so smaller tanks and less pumping power needed.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 98,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    In other news UK electricity is now up to 47% renewables. (or should that be GB?)

    Renewables supplied more of the UK’s electricity than any other source, making up 47% of the total, followed by gas (28%), nuclear (11%) and net imports (10%).

    UK solar was up 31% to 19TWh , so about half of our total annual demand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    interesting but I was specifically thinking of these kites could be anchored to barges off the west coast which I imagine makes more sense than floating turbines



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,872 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,825 ✭✭✭plodder


    The interconnectors are looking incredibly vulnerable now. I had gone off the idea pretty much, but it's a big advantage of nuclear power that you can store years worth of fuel on site. A significantly greater amount of gas storage (than a single FSRU) looks to be needed either.

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    True. You mean wind and solar as self sufficiency right, who are you and what have you done with the real concbui? 😆😆



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,602 ✭✭✭✭josip


    No, he means an NPP in Carnsore using uranium ore from Mount Leinster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,602 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Yesterday was one of the better days for renewable generation.

    https://bsky.app/profile/greencollective.io/post/3mc7pr4papk2y

    83% of domestic demand although some of that was exported due to the 75% SNSP.

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,403 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    It's rare that anything is "exported due to the 75% limit". While Priority Dispatch trades can happen, GB are not obliged to facilitate them. They typically have their own renewables at similar output anyway.

    Imports and exports are 99% dictated by market results. You would expect higher exports in windier periods due to the prices offered but ours is typically more expensive than that in GB so we end up importing. That's even with the losses on the interconnectors included and paid for. The question is - why aren't Irish renewables submitting cheaper prices to the coupling algorithm? Why aren't they submitting negative prices to ensure they generate?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,825 ✭✭✭plodder


    Why do you think they aren't? Genuine question btw

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,403 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Have no idea

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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 98,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2026/0116/1553440-mayo-wind-farm/

    which had 21 wind turbines, was first opened by Bord Na Móna in 1992 …

    The wind farm exceeded its expected operational lifecycle of 25 years. 1992 was 36 years ago.

    … will now be replaced with 18 far larger turbines with a tip height of up to 200 metres.

    Each one of the new wind turbines will be capable of supplying more power to the national electricity grid than was generated by the entire Bellacorick wind farm.

    14% fewer wind turbines and 2,000% more power.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,964 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Great to see this happening. It stands to reason that many of our earliest wind farms are in prime locations for wind, but their overall production is lower than it could be due to the lower power output of the earlier generation of turbines. Replacing them with modern ones as above is very welcome.

    There’s a prominent wind farm on the outskirts of Tralee that to observers on the N21 would seem to be a very productive wind farm that is a prime candidate for modernisation like this in the future too



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,127 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Headline is very click bait ,and the tech is likely 10 to 15 years off mass adoption ( if it pans out )

    But efficient hydrogen production would be enormous change for renewables,

    I still question the economics of moving and storing hydrogen with current tech ..but its a huge leap ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,872 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    When they talk about efficiency there is one not exactly minor item they leave out, and that is that electrolysis of water always requires ultra pure water as any impurities damage the usually very expensive electrodes and clog membranes.

    It takes about 9Kg/l of ultra pure water to make 1Kg of hydrogen. This water is usually sourced from municipal drinking water supplies and then purified.

    So two problems - the cost and energy required to purify the water and it's availability. If you were to try and take the curtailed excess solar production of California, and use it to electrolyse water, you are in trouble, as there is already a severe water shortage problem.

    Perth, Western Australia had such a water shortage problem it constructed one of the worlds largest desalination plants. That in turn requires prodigious amounts of energy to operate and relies on the fortuitous natural gas resources available.

    Water for electrolysis is a no-go pretty much anywhere solar is viable.

    I have seen tech-illiterate guff like 'why don't we just build electrolysers into offshore wind turbines to turn excess electricity into hydrogen'.

    So lets see these viability, costs, and efficiency claims include the cost and practicality of the water fed to them.

    Another almost never mentioned problem is that intermittent power is a poor match for electrolysis and reduces efficiency.

    Comprehensive review of 130 studies shows that alkaline and PEM electrolysis performance will be negatively affected by variable power supply from wind and solar

    Using intermittent renewables to produce Hydrogen via electrolysis of water is a bear of a problem.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,127 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Its likely cheaper to export electricity than to export hydrogen, but on a national scale it means you could plan on a renewables economy ,using batteries for short term storage , and hydrogen for longer/ seasonal storage.

    From a northern european point of view theres likely not an insurmountable lack of water , the tech above isn't electrolysis , its capillary action based- but i haven't a clue how much water and what the necessary quality would be.

    I'd imagine that to operate efficiently , the incoming electricity would be buffered through a battery system, ultimately the hydrogen production doesnt care a damn where the electricity comes from wind , solar ,nuclear ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    Dr Rosie argues theres a rapidly diminishing need for long term/seasonal storage. Just use gas for the small amount of time there's no renewables available. Her focus might be on Australia but the logic is strong

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoi3-0EYW14



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,403 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    But where are you going to export the electricity to? If we have excess, GB and Europe typically do too. The problem is that theirs is cheaper than ours so we spill ours due to the market mechanisms.

    As difficult and expensive as hydrogen is, it's an alternative to spilling that can be stored or used elsewhere. The question is just how feasible can it become? If the answer is not a lot, then we need to stop building renewables unless we stop paying for curtailment. Otherwise it's another expensive cash for ash type scheme.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,602 ✭✭✭✭josip


    It's not clear to me from that article whether the new Bellacorrick turbines will remain a separate Bellacorrick v2 farm or will be fully incorporated into Oweninny as Phase 3?

    What's the timeframe for the new turbines being operational?

    Over 100MW of new year round capacity would be a significant addition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,032 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    It depends really on what's more feasible. I get your idea of converting the excess wind into hydrogen to effectively store it for a later date, effectively flattening the curve. The same can be achieved with a battery pack / megapack or a Turlough Hill style hydro system though. If there was a cost benefit then it's definitely worth considering but hydrogen has not proven to be cost beneficial in any of the other applications it's been proposed for



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,403 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Unless another circuit materialises to Bellacorick, it's just 100MW of additional constraints. They can barely export the existing wind in that region. To think of the 400kV Grid West connection that was abandoned on a whim...

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,602 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I don't think the belief that if we have a surplus, the UK and Europe will also is correct. Weather is a lot more local than most people realise. At the moment, the east coast is experiencing 25m/s winds, yet most of the UK and even large parts of Ireland have winds in the region of 5m/s.

    https://windy.app/spots/Ireland

    image.png

    Zooming out beyond our immediate neighbour, most of the mainland is becalmed at the moment. (Won't be long before the dunkenflauters are along :)

    image.png

    Maybe someone who knows can correct me, but I would imagine that France is able to command a high price for its surplus at the moment. Which should mean that if we have a surplus we can export it cost effectively to the UK.

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,403 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Why are Wind Energy Ireland forever whinging about dispatch down due to imports during high wind then?

    There may be a few hours lag between Irish wind pickup and GB, or occasionally a storm that glances our coast but not our neighbours but they aren't the norm. Most of our wind comes from the SW and continues to our easterly neighbours.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,602 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I think dispatch down is due to the Irish Transmission network and not being able to get all the turbine power form where it is generated (usually on the west coast) to where it is needed or can be exported via an interconnector.

    You're correct that most of our weather systems move in a North Easterly direction. They move at an average speed of 15-25 kph reaching the UK 24 hours later. We can export our surplus when it hits Ireland and they can export their surplus back to us the following day.

    Also many weather systems that hit us miss southern UK, so there's potential to export via the Greenlink. I doubt if we will export much over the Celtic Interconnector. We'll be using that to import cheap nuclear.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,403 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    That's not how markets work. Greenlink and all other interconnectors flow based on the price differential in each bidding zone. The SEM is effectively a single bidding zone, so we are either importing or exporting 99% of the time. GB didn't go for zonal pricing so you won't suddenly see exports on Greenlink while Ewic and Moyle import.

    There may be occasions with counter flows due to the prices in both being negative and the Euphemia algorithm trying to create artificial demand by burning energy or the TSOs have counter traded for grid security but those times are few and far between.

    It takes a lot less than 24 hours for storms to reach GB. Typically we have a 3-4 hour lag for wind generation pick up as it crosses Ireland but the bulk of the GB wind is in Scotland, which picks up within an hour or two after NI.

    As for dispatch down, it's any reduction in renewables with respect to their availability. That can be for grid constraints or system curtailment or just over supply. It's very difficult to distinguish between whether something is constrained by the grid or there's just too much available when the SEMC rule set says constraints before curtailment. Basically Eirgrid has to classify the reduction based on the system at a point in time, even if there's more than 1 reason, or that reason changes. But if it was just constraints, there'd be a lot more focus on building infrastructure. Somehow I suspect that if we had all the grid in the world, we'd still have significant dispatch down due to curtailment. We simply can't accommodate all of our renewables when it blows and Europe doesn't want all of our excess at the prices we offer. s

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