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Mass shooting on Bondi Beach

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,470 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    So, you doubt that antisemitism wasn't the root cause of what they did? It's not like they shot up a Catholic event, or an Amish one, or Zorastrian.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,663 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Russia is not committing a Genocide. Israel is.

    Russia is not intentionally targeting children. Israel is.

    Russia is not locking up doctors or medical professionals without trial. Israel is.

    Israel is a Pariah. Poor attempt to link two different conflicts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,663 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Are Catholics, Amish or Protestants murdering Muslim children in their thousands.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    See this is the reason Ireland is being accused of a bizarre obsession with Israel: there is stronger evidence of Russian genocidal actions in Ukraine than anything Israel has done yet people in Ireland can come out with this shite because going by the Irish media’s obsession you can actually believe that!

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,595 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    yet people in Ireland can come out with shite

    Yes, indeed they can.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,523 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    If they had, where it was a Catholic, Amish or Zorastrian State that was responsible for the recent deaths of over 70,000 in Gaza with 60% of those deaths women, children and the elderly, I would not dismiss out of hand as possibly being connected.

    The genocide in Gaza, or indeed what is currently happening on the West Bank, I do not see decreasing the numbers of those that are antisemitic. Nor the numbers that will be radicalized to carry out similar attacks in the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,882 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Is this some kind of sick, depraved joke?

    Russia absolutely is committing genocide. Putin, Dugin etc have made it very clear in their view, Ukraine is a fake identity and that those who share it are, at best, misguided. They deny that Ukraine has a right to exist, that its people are actually Russians, that its culture and identity are legitimate, and their actions have been consistent with a campaign to destroy the Ukrainian identity and people.

    Allegations of genocide of Ukrainians in the Russo-Ukrainian war - Wikipedia

    As to Russia not intentionally targeting children, I can only assume anyone claiming this has had their head up their posterior for the past 3 years.

    As to not "locking up doctors" they're worse - Russia's actions are far worse - part of their strategy of destruction against Ukraine has been "double tapping" civilian buildings. That is, they'll launch a missile at a school, hospital or apartment building, work out how long it will take first responders (fire services, rescue etc) and then send another missile or drones to kill the first responders.

    Oh and while Ukraine did nothing to provoke Russia except exist, Israel is attacked constantly from all sides including Gaza.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,076 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    See this is the reason Ireland is being accused of a bizarre obsession with Israel: there is stronger evidence of Russian genocidal actions in Ukraine than anything Israel has done yet people in Ireland can come out with this shite because going by the Irish media’s obsession you can actually believe that!

    In fairness though, journalists are able to cover the war in Ukraine. The battlefield is huge and unfixed. Ukraine isn't a small area completely surrounded by Russia. At the same time, bodies have been dug up in Gaza with their hands zip-tied behind their backs. IDF videos have shown Israeli soldiers using people as human shields, even strapping them to their vehicles. Bodies have been returned that were missing organs or were run over by tanks. I could go on, but there's an overwhelming amount of evidence against Israel, a lot of it recorded by Israelis. There would more than likely be a bunch more evidence if international journalists were allowed into Gaza to cover the atrocities.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,220 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,470 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    So, you doubt antisemitism is the root of why these two psychopaths did what they did?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 504 ✭✭✭briangriffin


    Assuming you agree that Hamas are a terrorist organisation, how would you eradicate Hamas? What would the military strategy be to eradicate a group of Islamic fundamentalists who have large scale support from Palestinian civilians? Who have mothers who are shouting their approval for their sons to die in the pursuit of killing Israelis? Who use civilians as human shields?

    What would be acceptable if similar happened to Oct 7th here in Ireland? If over 1000 people were killed by terrorists intent on the eradication of the Irish nation? If they built tunnels under hospitals schools etc to hide and use the civilian population as human shields.

    How Many Hamas operatives would you willingly leave behind knowing that they have repeatedly said they will do what they did on Oct 7th again and again.

    Have you seen the 40 plus min video of Hamas terrorists with go pros from Oct 7th released by Israel? The war crimes committed the rape the murder the indiscriminate targeting of civilians? The father who jumped on a grenade to protect his 2 sons after terrorists knowingly threw a grenade into their small room? Over 40 mins of Hamas killing and celebrating the killing, driving the dead bodies and hostages back through Crowds of civilians who were celebrating the murder and capture like winning the world Cup. How do you defeat terrorists who employ these tactics so that your very survival is ensured? Do you just say no we can't go after the terrorists because there will be too many civilian casualties?

    The history of war suggests that's a very naive approach to take when a group are out to murder indiscriminately based on religion. No one wants to see innocents killed on either side, how do you manage to avoid innocents dying when tactically Hamas have decided they will use human shields?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    So because a dozen, possibly two dozen, Australians MIGHT be fighting in Gaza, that would explain why two men of Pakistani origin, also now Australian, deliberately shot a 10 year old girl running for cover?

    Could you explain that thinking please?

    It seems to me to be somewhat comparable to saying after a mass shooting in the US that it was because the shooters were two Italian catholics living in America who’d attacked a group of German Americans on the grounds that being majority Protestant some of them might have joined the British army in Northern Ireland and been involved in Bloody Sunday.

    And then instead of attacking actual soldiers, they’d chosen to attack families at German Fest Milwaukee, or Oktoberfest Zinzinnati.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,544 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Israel also do the double tap in Gaza, Sean. However, i 'd agree with a lot of what you say here about Russia. It's just a pity about your craven double standards in condemning Russian war crimes while continuing to run cover for Israeli war crimes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,544 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    I have to agree with the she- wolf for once. The only basis on which you could possibly justify the attack on Bondi Beach is if they were all known to the killers as soliders who had served in Gaza. These murderers were clearly just intent on killing jews. There should be no pussy footing around it declaring it a vile act of anti semitism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,370 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Both sides of this argument have some merit. Sure, it's an act of antisemitism as they specifically targeted Jews on a Jewish holiday. However would the gunmen have done it without Israel's wanton slaughter in Palestine? And nobody can answer that for sure. But on the phone of one of the killers, he is recorded as saying the motive is due to "the acts of 'Zionists".

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce86l95gx5po

    When Naveed Akram goes to trial for his crime we'll know more about the whys of this matter. Anything else is just pure speculation at this point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Just to be clear: there is NO legal basis on which civilians can be deliberately targeted. Ever.

    So what merit do you think the argument that it might be understandable for a Pakistani to target a 10 year Australian girl as a consequence of anything that has happened in the Middle East could possibly have? Other than that she was a Jewish Australian?

    You’re just outing yourself (if that hadn’t already been obvious) as an antisemite - even to those who hate the mere existence of Israel.

    Mod Edit: Warned for personal abuse

    Post edited by Necro on

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,461 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    There have been a considerable number of school shootings, mass shootings etc in the last ten years (including in Europe) usually carried out by disturbed individuals, lone wolfs, incels etc. Referring back to what ISIS were doing in western countries a decade ago is hardly relevant to any discussion in 2025/26.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    Just to be clear: there is NO legal basis on which civilians can be deliberately targeted. Ever.

    Haven't the IDF been doing this for the past 2 years? Do you condemn these actions?

    This abhorrent attack on Bondi was completely an antisemitic attack for the record.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Not that that has any relevance on here, but I have frequently said that any and all war crimes by Israel - of which I am sure there are many - should be punished at all levels of responsibility. Are you unable to read my posts or something?

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,220 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    If you can't see or acknowledge how public sentiment world wide has been influenced as to how Israeli's (and by extension) Jewish people are seen by others then you're either being deliberately obtuse or really shouldn't be involved in this conversation.

    And if you want to say that this blurring of the lines between Jewish people and Israeli's as a whole and their government in particular then you should assess (A) just how much the Israeli government and its supporters have leaned in to their Jewish identity in the pursuit of their actions in Gaza and (B) just how widespread support has been amongst Israeli expats and Jewish people for what has happened over the last 2 years.

    Two of the people shot last weekend were heavily involved on the ground in supporting Israel's actions, that in itself shows how off the mark your analogies are.

    Finally, if you want to use evocative language with respect to the misfortunate 10 year old and her death, lets talk about Hind Rajab and what her final hours (not seconds or minutes) were like and whether her death was in any way justifiable. Or how about the two paramedics who were finally given permission to go to her to only then be targeted and killed themselves. One of the most nauseating things to observer over the last 2+ years has been how the suffering of Jewish/Israeli people has been elevated to be of vastly more importance than that of the Palestinians. It's depressing and disgusting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,220 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Can I just say for the record, I don't know if anyone is justifying the attack on Bondi. I certainly am not and haven't seen people do so, but I haven't been reading the thread in detail either so I may be missing something.

    But I have been advocating that there are different possibilities to understand why the attack happened, and in my view it isn't as simple as an antisemitic attack happening in isolation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,370 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    What the hell are you talking about.

    I specifically said that "it's an act of antisemitism as they specifically targeted Jews on a Jewish holiday."

    Do the entire site a service and learn what an antisemite is and stop throwing that term around like it's going out of fashion.

    You utter, utter, cretin.

    Mod Edit: Warned for personal abuse

    Post edited by Necro on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    No I can read them perfectly and you've consistently provided explanations as to why civilians in Gaza have been murdered by the IDF, no assertive condemnation at all.

    You also throw around the term antisemitic at will, which downplays the actual meaning of the word.

    This attack was antisemitic, no doubt about it at all. Being opposed to the Israeli government's and the IDF's actions in the genocide they have inflicted is not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,321 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    No surprise hence Zionists term is used around widely too. Without much of relevance, when you think about it, just new fashionable terms being thrown around, because for some reason there's a need to have a fight for a cause. I remember you defending relentlessly Kneecap's fook ups (lads just couldn't say oh shít, there were some fook ups, instead they did play it the way they did.) It's just the same bullshít on both sides over and over again. It's no wonder that people are killing each other for their need to express their views of things. I'm not judging people by their skin, by their religion. And I'm expecting the same from people I meet. I do value individuals by their actions and same should be applied or I expect on their side. That's it. Simple. I do believe if we somehow could achieve that at least on discussion site, world would become a bit better, or some of us.

    Hit the switch to keep the lights on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,076 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Israel isn't just targeting Hamas, though, are they? There's video after video of the IDF committing war crimes, and they're just the ones we get to see. Israel is by far the more powerful force; they should be able to prosecute a war without executing civilians on the street.

    Nobody here is shedding tears for any of Hamas; it's all the civilians that the IDF are massacring that change public opinion. Then there's how every dead noncombatant generates new extremists to carry on the fight.

    Is Israel safer now?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,321 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    So there are sides targeted doing the same.

    Is Israel safer now?

    To the point yes. Personally I don't agree with the way Israel does it, but I don't live in that part of the world, so can't speak for them or other nations involved. Saying that, from what I can observe from a great distance non of the sides are doing themselves favours.

    Hit the switch to keep the lights on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,444 ✭✭✭Cordell


    They just killed 15 people and in 2024 they were planning a concert bombing. They are still very much relevant. Don't underestimate them or assume they went soft. It's not as bad as it used to be simply because intelligence and law enforcement got better at handling islamic terrorism.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,461 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    For sure the threat is real, but to be framing this around the 'threat' that Muslims supposedly pose to the West would be very misleading. There have been a series of mass shooting events in Europe in the last few years in places like Germany, Austria, Czechia, Sweden and Serbia, but none of them had anything to do with Islamist terrorism.



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