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Meanwhile on the Roads...

1798082848593

Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,777 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I've never understood the fight against bus lane, red light and yellow box cameras considering they should not only improve traffic flow significantly in 6 months, they should also allow for the dramatic improvement of timing sequences as they could be a lot more efficiently manipulated. Finally it would allow the Gardai to actively target areas that are troublesome instantly as a simple report on high rates of tickets could be issued almost instantly before tickets even hit people. It would also mean that @standardg60 could then be appeased as it would allow for targetting of junctions where there are high rates of cyclists running lights. I actually agree with this one as if you are not observant enough to notice a Garda at the lights, you are not observing enough in general.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 844 ✭✭✭p15574


    I know, it's a no-brainer - you would think. I'm convinced the problem is that it would catch too many people, and those people vote, so politicians don't want to touch it. They don't care about saving lives, just getting in at the next election.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,150 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    I suppose that raises the issue of enforcement of jay walking laws in the hypothetical scenario where a cyclist reaches the red lights, hops off, walks/ runs his bike across the road, hops back on and pedals off.

    Yes, it's taking hypothesis to an extreme in a way, but it also reinforces the point that treating cars and bikes in the same manner is a bit of a nonsensical standard to apply. Try hopping out of your car and pushing it across a junction and see how practical it is, if even possible.

    Sometimes you just need to take a deep breath, step back and ask yourself what are we trying to legislate for and why? What is the net benefit to society? If a law doesn't provide and overall net benefit to society or isn't for the greater good, then really why waste resources flogging a dead horse? Culture wars is the only answer to that question as far as I can tell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 844 ✭✭✭p15574




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,990 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Kind a is - you're not supposed to cross within 15m of a crossing.

    This is 100% why we don't have camera enforcement - even the speed cameras are píss poor. I can only think the politicians feel the RSA isn't arms length enough to get away with it (if we're to assume the RSA is anyway functioning!).



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm convinced that the general societal resistance to such enforcement measures is quite simply that many people know that they could well be the ones being caught out by speed cameras or red light cameras or phone detecting cameras.

    Funnily enough, I saw two cyclists doing the hop-off, run across, hop-on movement in Rathgar yesterday, not sure if that quite counts as a trend yet.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wasn't too impressed with his interview on Morning Ireland this morning. He made a big deal of how he 'directed' RSA on how to deal with driver testing delays - to recruit extra testers. If the RSA couldn't have come up with this stroke of genius themselves, then surely they're not fit for purpose. He gave no compelling reason as to why the logic of the recommendations from 12 months ago didn't apply today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,502 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    It's all bluster and hot air and tactical evasion….plus Christmas is coming, so you just go and look over there please and stop bothering me.

    Look at M. Martin, he wouldn't even own up to the mistakes on the Jim Gavin election run, and made perfectly sure the report completely avoided any blame attached to him.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,777 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,150 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    You're pretty much correct, but think of the reaction of a Garda waiting to cross at a set of lights where a pedestrian decides to make a dash for it in front of him/her.

    Going by their behaviour in the city centre motorists are certainly of the view that one exists.

    A crossing including a set of traffic lights with a pedestrian sequence, I presume.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭JMcL


    It's been said many times here and elsewhere that having the RSA in charge of licensing and NCTs, deriving their income from that, as well as road safety are incompatible. The poor driving of ever bigger vehicles is the biggest threat to safety, but why would it be in their interest to curb that? One of the car brained muppets in the comments on the article (I've no idea why I do this to myself - surprisingly there was only a tangential swipe at cyclists) suggested having garages able to issue NCT certs, which is a strangely similar bad idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭JMcL


    Going by their behaviour in the city centre motorists are certainly of the view that one exists.

    I think the Venn diagram between this cohort and the one that thinks "free speech" exists in this country would show considerable levels of intersection



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭khamilton


    I do the hop off bit at this junction:

    image.png

    As well as turning right heading inbound on rathmines road and wanting to get on to the south circular eastbound.

    I joined the civil service a while ago, and I can see how difficult (nigh, impossible) it is to change the organisational culture and perspective once its become entrenched. I fundamentally don't see how the RSA can be reformed without a root and branch reform of the org culture, new executives, and even new managers who receive education in road safety fundamentals.


    That won't happen, but if a new agency is created, it will disrupt the culture even if it takes over some of the old employees.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,150 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    I type this from the top deck of a dublin bus that just took off from stationary to roll through a red light that didn’t even turn green as we were moving 🤣



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,565 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    I joined the civil service a while ago, and I can see how difficult (nigh, impossible) it is to change the organisational culture and perspective once its become entrenched.

    same in the private sector; once a large organisation has existed for long enough, it becomes ossified by its own processes.

    i work for a large, well known multinational, and the amount of unnecessary paperwork and process is insane. in recent years it's been turbocharged by the compliance middle managers taking over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 684 ✭✭✭Johnny Jukebox




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,565 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    https://www.irishtimes.com/media/2025/12/21/leadership-needed-on-road-safety/

    paywalled, but re the decision not to break up the RSA:

    In the short-term this decision avoids significant and distracting upheaval. New legislation would be required, two new boards, two sets of funding, new branding and websites, new management teams, and so forth.

    however the general thrust of the article is that the RSA is not fit for purpose, that there's no clear ownership of the issue of road safety, and that the decision to retain it is meangingless as it stands.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    So, it's efficacy is second to the cost of shutting it down/replacing it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,565 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    no, that's not what it says, and if you took that meaning from what i posted i obviously wasn't clear enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Not saying you did say that…that's my view of the sham that is the RSA, and governance or system that allows it to continue as a not fit for purpose organisation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭khamilton


    As Sinead O’Sullivan in a recent column pointed out, the single greatest challenge in terms of road safety in this country is the absence of a clear line of ownership.The RSA is responsible for a range of important road safety levers including road safety education, driver education, driver testing and licensing and vehicle standards.However, it has no say in terms of roads policing nor legislative reform nor the courts process, where lacunas remain in terms of the recording of licencing details of disqualified drivers persist, to name but one issue.

    As someone with more than a passing interest in road safety (and who studied aspects of it in economics), it's a bit worrying to see a narrative coming out that the real failings with the RSA are to do with their lack of a responsibility for other areas - rather than failing to perform in the areas they are currently responsible for.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,565 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    there is an important issue there though; if an organisation is toothless but nominally responsible, any efforts it makes will be seen as tokenistic as it has no power to affect change.

    yes, the RSA is useless but perhaps that's inevitable given the actual platform or ability it has to make change.

    they're like cheeleaders waving pom poms who have zero ability to influence the match.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,310 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭mattser




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,786 ✭✭✭cletus


    Have a look up, there, that's his point flying overhead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭khamilton


    There's no legislation that stops them from having road engineers on staff and proactively putting in submissions on plans.
    There's no legislation that insists 90% of their campaigns must be focused on hi-vis.
    There's no legislation that insists that they must always take a car-centric/car-dependent view on road safety.

    Suggesting (the article, not you) that a malfunctioning organisation that's failing at its current responsibilities actually needs more responsibilities in order to do better isn't a particularly strong argument - and there are two distinct discussions to be had

    1. Is the RSA operating well within its current remit
    2. Is the RSAs current remit adequate for it to fulfill its statutory function

    The answer can be "no, no" and the solution to that isn't to then expand its statutory function.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭mattser


    Which bit of ' footpaths not meant for cars or bicycles ' are you struggling with. Don't be in such a rush to be a smartass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,786 ✭✭✭cletus


    Again, point missed. But sure keep trying, you'll get there eventually



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,589 ✭✭✭standardg60


    One would think they would at least campaign within the bounds of the current legislation. There is no legal requirement to be bedecked in hi-vis so by focusing on it they are lending credence to the cop out every motorist uses for 'not seeing' a victim when in court.

    In one of the links above even though the motorist plead guilty to careless driving their solicitor still pointed out the lack of hi-vis on the cyclist. As it's not a legal requirement it should play no part in any court case.

    They, along with the guards and the legal system, are actually a bloody danger to road safety, but none of them seem to be able to see the wood from the trees.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,150 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    this is my my main concern. I’ve no issues with anyone who wears hi viz head to toe if it makes them feel safer. I can deal with the odd numpty asking me where my hi viz is. But it’s nearly at the stage where people will look at all of the announcements and assume that it must just be an oversight in the legislation that needs plugging asap.

    When the science and evidence demonstrates the efficacy of something I’ll back it no problem. That’ll never be the case - balance of convenience wise - with hi viz. And if we ignore the balance of convenience point then it should be open season in demanding regulation of car colours, lights and … eh … hi viz.



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