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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,012 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I don't recall seeing this mentioned previously:

    Untitled Image

    Norwegian think tank calculates Europe’s binary choice.

    Russia wins, Europe pays €1.2-1.6 trillion. Ukraine wins, Europe pays half. That’s the stark math in a new report by Corisk and the Norwegian Institute of International Affairs. The choice: spend more now to help Ukraine win, or spend far more later to defend a Europe without Ukraine.

    The findings challenge the prevailing political narrative that Europe cannot afford to increase its support for Ukraine.

    The report arrives as a direct challenge to the Trump administration’s 28-point peace plan, which the authors argue misreads what is required for a stable Ukraine and Europe. A Russian partial victory would force Europe into a massive rearmament program to deter further aggression, amounting to €1.2-1.6 trillion over a four-year period. Equipping Ukraine to win would cost €522-838 billion over the same period—roughly half of that amount.

    https://ukrainetoday.org/norway-did-the-math-arm-ukraine-to-win-or-pay-double-when-russia-does/

    Poland should take note. They are on a massive spending spree for their own defences but less so when it comes to assisting Ukraine directly. Norway just gave Ukraine a nice Xmas present;

    Ukraine's air defense can count on quite significant strengthening with missiles of various types from Norway. The country’s government announced provision of another tranche of military aid to Ukraine in the amount of 3.2 billion Norwegian kroner (about $313 million) for these purposes.

    According to the announcement, this amount includes purchase in the U.S. of ammunition for F-16 fighters for a total amount of about 1 billion Norwegian kroner (about $97.8 million) under the FMS program. Which specific ammunition will be purchased is not mentioned, but given the direction of the package and available armament, this could concern AIM-120, AIM-9 and APKWS missiles.

    The latter option is indicated by the fact that within this tranche, inexpensive systems with good availability, large production volumes and relatively low prices are being purchased. By the way, finally an F-16 was spotted in Ukraine's skies,which most likely was armed with them.

    Another 0.5 billion Norwegian kroner (about $48.9 million) the Norwegian government is directing to anti-aircraft missiles for the S-300 system. The source of procurement of these missiles is not named, and finding ammunition for it now is undoubtedly a super-difficult task, because their manufacturer is russia, and the stocks of all obvious donors should have been depleted quite a long time ago.

    But as we know from some posters, Europe is doing nothing to assist Ukraine, leaving aside all those joint effort Ukrainian arms factories starting up in the UK, Denmark, Romania (?) and other places. Rhinemetal are going to build the worlds most advanced military explosives factory in Bulgaria and their ammunition plant will soon open in Ukraine.

    Well worth a look:

    https://militarnyi.com/en/news/britain-and-ukraine-launch-joint-drone-production-venture/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,012 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    €3.7 billion in interest given to Ukraine so far.

    image_2025-12-19_121054805.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,892 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    If that doesn't give you a big lift. Shadow fleet struck again. Outside the black sea. Potential GRU casualties (including a head of hybrid warfare in Europe). Finger in the eye of India. Two fingers to Putin. And two fingers to the orange goon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,831 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    That already happens, yes. I know Belgium sends interest made on the assets to Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,012 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    He and Krasnov are well matched, both swimming in and splashing everyone with the sh​it of their own creation and expecting everyone to just swallow it.

    I think he's been taking lessons from Lavrov.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,012 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The final 12 Australian Abrams have arrived in Ukraine to make up the 49, after 37 arrived earlier in July.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,012 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Check out the Ukrainian reconnaissance drone videos in that post. They were all over that thing!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,303 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Has it reached the point this web of fibre optic cables will actually protect the Ukrainian soldiers below? I find it hard to see how an FPV drone could navigate that without getting tangled.

    I'm on the verge of a site ban. Please don't rage bait me, I'm easily triggered especially late at night!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭oceanman


    how much will be skimmed off the top of that 90bn once it reaches Ukraine i wonder?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,122 ✭✭✭happyoutscan


    Depends. Stupid Americans probably think most of it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,788 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Rumours the head of the Russian military intelligence (of such a thing exists) was killed on that drone strike on the tanker. Along with several high profile GRU members.

    All rumours, but damn if true, he's a close confidant of Putin.

    Post edited by TheValeyard on

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,788 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Another oil rig hit

    Best way to enforce sanctions is with drones

    Post edited by TheValeyard on

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,122 ✭✭✭happyoutscan




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,404 ✭✭✭Field east


    re Putin threatening to sue Belgium if it allows Russian financial ‘assets’ being ‘stolen and used to finance Ukr exchequer. With regards to the legal situation , is there a difference between the above and Russia seizing assets of foreign companies. Eg aeroplanes, businesses in The Ru Federation. Is there a didpfferwnce in principal ?
    Also, do courts currently exist that it is within their brief to handle such claims in both of the above senarios



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,740 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    Furthermore, if it's confirmed that the Kremlin is posting GRU/military/paramilitary personnel on civilian vessels, that makes all those vessels legitimate military targets. One could argue that they might be used as a platform for launching, oh, I dunno, "military grade" drones into the flight path of a Ukrainian presidential 'plane. Hypothetically.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    Seems like they're hitting more oil infrastructure now that oil prices have dropped and stabilized.

    I had the thought that Trump's motive in Venezuela is to interfere with oil prices.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭RGARDINR




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭Jizique


    David McWilliams take: "Massive climbdown by the EU last night on not freezing Russian assets. EU stumpting up 90 billion & will now, most probably, agitate for peace with Russia quickly. Lots of things in play now. US/EU, US /Russia, EU/Moscow, EU/Ukraine."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,303 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    It's amazing how much influence Russia can exert even when they're on their knees. The West will come to regret this.

    The EU should tough it out for 3 years and hope the next US president is on board.

    I'm on the verge of a site ban. Please don't rage bait me, I'm easily triggered especially late at night!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    This war will go on for years unfortunately.

    The next US election is vital.

    Hopefully someone normal is elected.

    Putin has some kind of hold over Trump.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭midlander12


    The only ones who see it as an EU 'failure' are those who want to see it as such, and wish to the EU generally to 'fail'. Many of them would probably also have been complaining if the EU had actually decided to use the frozen assets.

    It's a bit of a messy compromise, and it's open to the criticism that they caved to Russian intimidation, but the bottom line is that Ukraine gets enough money to stay afloat for the moment, and they get to fight on. In six months' time, if the war is still in full swing, will anyone even remember last night's events?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭midlander12


    Or maybe best to hold them to fund the reconstruction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭midlander12


    Clearly a typo there for a start as the assets obviously remain frozen. How he thinks the EU stumping up 90bn for the Ukrainian war effort means they will 'agitate for peace…quickly' is beyond me. The rest of it is just a word salad with a lot of /'s.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,740 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    How come the videos showing life in Russkiy Mir are always tedious, pointless "appeals to the Tzar" or variations on the theme of vodka-fuelled stupidity, rather than something like this?

    From the Kyiv Post:

    Ukraine’s iconic Christmas carol “Shchedryk” was performed at one of DTEK’s heavily damaged thermal power plants as part of a public appeal urging the international community to strengthen support for Ukraine’s energy sector amid ongoing Russian attacks.

    […]

    The performance, filmed at the destroyed facility, was organized as part of a joint initiative by DTEK, Ukraine’s largest private energy company, and the cultural project Svitlo Concert. The video was released as winter deepens and Ukraine’s power system continues to operate under pressure from repeated strikes on energy infrastructure.

    In a statement accompanying the video, DTEK said the performance was intended as a message to the world, highlighting both the scale of destruction to Ukraine’s energy facilities and the resilience of those working to keep electricity and heat available during the war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,284 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    "The Coalition of the Waiting" as I heard them described



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,567 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Seems the new Chech Republic government are ex KGB members.

    Total change from the last government who coughed up 1.8 million shells.


    Expect no help from them. Russias influence in the world knows no bounds it seems .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    90bn is small change anyway.

    EU GDP is 20 trillion.

    We can fund Ukraine indefinitely.

    We've been "agitating for peace " even before the war started.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,012 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    As an Australian, I find Irish people criticising the EU for how little it's done for Ukraine, or how badly it's done things, sick making.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,404 ✭✭✭Field east


    IMO , I do not see the lack of a decision to’ release ‘ the Ru #€ 210 Bn assets as a failure. It is the nature of the EU in how decision making is structured , fact that you are dealing with 20 + soverign states, etc, etc, etc, that decisions take more time to reach than if one is dealing with a dictorship. I assume that the issue will be kept on the agenda in the hope that things will change over the next few months/ years.

    Also, IMO , I assume that the €210 Bn is not needed right now because the EU approved €90Bn will be sufficient for Ukr to ‘keep going’ for the next year or two. And , hopefully, the €210 Bn issue will be resolved in Ukr’s favour.
    We can safely assume that there ARE A LOT of things going on behind the scene that we may never know about



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