Mass shooting on Bondi Beach

I agree terrorism is multi-factorial - ideology, funding, and networks matter, but war/conflict/ collapse decide whether those factors turn into mass violence. This is repeated in history

Saudi Arabia exports Salafi ideology, which I agree is dangerous. If ideology alone caused terrorism, Saudi Arabia would be the epicentre and it isn’t. If Islam causes it, there would be millions of terror attacks every years all over Muslim countrues and there isn't. The major jihadist groups emerged in war zones like Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Gaza. Ideology spreads widely, terrorism occurs where states fail, where that ideology became the motivator. This is what is shown throughout history.

Salafism is a genuine threat. Recognising that doesn’t mean ignoring political conditions, and certainly doesn't mean these things are done because "Muslims."

And no, being against tarring whole people isn't "virtue signalling". Are those people saying the Jews killed in the beach have nothing to do with Israel crimes virtue signalling aswell?

Calling terrorists “pawns” does not mean they lack agency. People can sincerely believe they are acting for religion and be manipulated, enabled, or exploited by larger political forces at the same time as comitting awful crimes. These people are often recruited, funded, and directed within political and strategic contexts they don’t control.

Such as SA (who ye bring up), extremist Salafist views are propagated through organised networks you are entirely correct. But salafism didn't spread organically - the content was religious but it was state backed, strategic and geoplolitical.

Even still, those networks only produce sustained terrorism where conflict, repression, or collapse allow them to operate. They don't happen in SA do they? In the west the are limited to lone wolf style attacks (not downplaying it, but these are small scale compared to terror attacks in the ME).

If these warzones weren't there, it's v difficult to argue that ISIS, Al Qaeda, Taliban, Hamas would exist, and subsequently that we wouldn't have these attacks.

And I'm sorry but telling us Muslims ideology as the cause of terrorism, and completely ignoring political context, is collectively blaming Muslims.

If ideology alone caused terrorism, Saudi Arabia would be the epicentre and it isn’t. 

The Saudi authorities do a good enough job of terrorizing their own people with public executions, restrictions on peoples lives and other Draconian punishments. They know better than to **** on their own doorstep. That's why they export their hatred, and allow foreigners there a modicum of freedom in their compounds in order to further their own aims. I'm sure there are people there who would like to attack these "infidels" but they are kept under control by and large by those in charge

Saudi Arabia is the "ideal" that they want to impose on the world, and to achieve this they commit acts of terror on others. Why would they need to commit terror attacks in the country that already follows their doctrine? That's the "peace" that they talk about.

And in case it needs clarifying, by "they" I'm not referring to all Muslims but the extremist ones who want a worldwide caliphate etc

There have been numerous terrorist attacks in Saudi Arabia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Saudi_Arabia

And not forgetting that 15 of the 'magnificent 19' came from SA. Your arguments do not stand scrutiny.

That is not tarring all 2 billion Muslims with the same brush. It is admitting to a genuine threat. One which you will find actual muslim majority countries tend to take very seriously and much more so than western nations. Here, it is more important to appear virtuous seemingly.

Well, i don't tbink you are going to find too many people defending US foreign policy

The tactical operations squads don't just roam the streets making knee jerk reactions. This was based on some information, or monitoring by ASIO. My guess is that these people were already on a watch list and their movements triggered the action.
They were hardly out for a bit of Christmas shopping. Victoria to Sydney is a 10 hour drive

Last day of work this year, office Xmas party is in bondi. Definitely shadow over the whole area. But positive attitude has to win out

LOL

What's any of this got to do with a clear factual error made by the previous poster?

BL was found in Pakistan. That’s a different thing to saying he planned and launched the 9/11 attack from there. But maybe that’s what you think?

No, the aftermath of the iraq invasion was shocking in its sectarian barbarity. And I'm not sure that the period when ISIS controlled cities with a population of near 2 million was a great deal for those residents either.

The men were believed to have arrived from Victoria on Wednesday and all were known to Victorian police, Lanyon said

All known to the police the poor innocent lads.

Suicidal empathy, as they say now.

Your links said that they were all known to the police, and no, that doesn't mean that a curtain twitching neighbour said something. The chain of events that lead to poor Jean Charles de Menezes losing his live was started by muslim terrorists. And yet you find reasons to give them more kindness. That's why they call it that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124081766#Comment_124081766I think everyone knows that. One of the main reasons that Bush senior didn't pursue his win after the invasion of Kuwait and remove Saddam Hussein then was the widespread and entirely reasonable feeling that Hussein's tyranny was what was holding the lid on the pressure cooker.

Nonetheless: 1, it's just factually wrong to say that the invasion of Iraq was the response to 9/11. The poster is confusing it with the invasion of Afghanistan, and, 2, Iraq NOW, is a far better place to live than under Saddam Hussein.

On the Bondi killings, Brendan O'Neill has an interesting article in the Spectator:

(archived version)