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Northern Ireland 2125?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Wrong again. You should read the GFA. The "transition" to a U.I. is only guaranteed IF a majority in both jurisdictions ( N.I. and Rep of I ) want it. Thats a big if.

    You did not answer the question:

    Before a possible poll, do you not think people would need to know what they would be voting for - what it would mean for taxes, pensions, loss of free trade between N.I. and Britain, division of N.I.'s share of UK national debt, possible reduction in NATO territory, flag, anthem, commonwealth, etc? After Brexit, it would be absurd for people to vote for a pig in a poke.

    N.B. My "transition" to owning a luxury beach-front villa in the sun (complete with swimming pool and yacht) is guaranteed IF I win the euromillions and have the health to enjoy it. Neither are guaranteed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Which is shat I said here, ages ago:

    I suggest you read the GFA and the bit where BOTH governments commit to passing legislation in their respective parliament to give effect to the wishes of the people in the event of majorities voting for a United


    Totally dis-ingenuous posting from you. Caught out on your knowledge and spouting belligerent Unionist tropes about an agreement that has snookered tge UK and seen Unionists thrown under a bus by their own PM.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Stop diverting. We are talking about a Border Poll.

    I clarified for you that the "transition" (as you called it) to a U.I. is only guaranteed IF a majority in both jurisdictions ( N.I. and Rep of I ) want it. Thats a big if.

    As I said to you, my "transition" to owning a luxury beach-front villa in the sun (complete with swimming pool and yacht) is only guaranteed IF I win the euromillions and have the health to enjoy it. Neither are guaranteed. That does not stop me wanting a luxury beach-front villa in the sun and good health to enjoy it of course. But at best it an aspiration (some would call it a dream), not a transition that was guaranteed by an agreement a generation ago.

    You did not answer the question:

    Before a possible poll, do you not think people would need to know what they would be voting for - what it would mean for taxes, pensions, loss of free trade between N.I. and Britain, division of N.I.'s share of UK national debt, possible reduction in NATO territory, flag, anthem, commonwealth, etc? After Brexit, it would be absurd for people to vote for a pig in a poke.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I clarified for you that the "transition" (as you called it) to a U.I. is only guaranteed

     IF

     a majority in both jurisdictions ( N.I. and Rep of I ) want it. Thats a big 

    if

    .

    NOBODY claimed this.

    In reaction to me saying this:

    I suggest you read the GFA and the bit where BOTH governments commit to passing legislation in their respective parliament to give effect to the wishes of the people in the event of majorities voting for a United

    you tried a belligerent Unionist trope and taunt that the GFA amounted to a fooling the IRA.

    As Unionism and the British discovered to their HUGE cost, the GFA amounts to much more than that and is a binding agreement that regulates how the British take decisions that affect Ireland.

    Want examples of that, just ask.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭randd1


    Northern Ireland in 2125? Serious stuff;

    • Northern Ireland will be a self-governing autonomous region, linked via common economically policy to the Republic, and with the Irish president as head of state.
    • Belfast will become a major trade port with an independent EU member Scotland.
    • July 12th will become a public holiday.
    • Parades will be allowed go where they want in order to facilitate Unionist traditions as a concession for political unification of the island.
    • A new flag will see a green and orange star on a white background, symbolising the two side of the divide on a field or peace.

    Fun stuff;

    • Orange Order votes to cease existence as it's purpose no longer means anything as Catholic members outnumber Protestants, mostly due to their sponsorship and licensing agreement with Supermacs.
    • The uploaded consciousness of Gerry Adams refuses to admit he was in the IRA.
    • Linfield win the AI club hurling final.
    • Thanks to improved medicine and life-extending technologies, the average age of a DUP party member now rests at 98.
    • Lough Neagh becomes Europe's biggest sewage tank.
    • Prostitution makes up 30% of the income in Derry as the city becomes the main naval and air base of the EU armed services in the ongoing cold war against the US, with allied Russian soldiers making up most of the spending.
    • The DUP finally admit the reason they are so anti-LGBT is because having it illegal "makes it feel even dirtier when we do it".
    • Sinn Fein vote to remove the Irish language from official documents, as they can find no-one to speak the language.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What happens with Tayto crisps though? The important stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Stop diverting. You wrote ( post no. 4321 ), in a paragraph of its own "

    "The GFA guarantees a transition to a UI."

    I clarified for you that the "transition" (as you called it) to a U.I. is only guaranteed IF a majority in both jurisdictions ( N.I. and Rep of I ) want it. Thats a big if.

    As I said to you, my "transition" to owning a luxury beach-front villa in the sun (complete with swimming pool and yacht) is only guaranteed IF I win the euromillions and have the health to enjoy it. Neither are guaranteed.

    Are you going to take back your stand-alone claim that "The GFA guarantees a transition to a UI."?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Stop diverting. You wrote ( post no. 4321 ), in a paragraph of its own "

    "The GFA guarantees a transition to a UI."

    Yes, in an answer to somebody else.

    You didn't clarify you weighed in with this doozy trope straight from belligerent Unionism playbook.

    You clearly do not understand the GFA. There is no mention of an automatic transition in the GFA. The purpose of the GFA was to get the terrorists to surrender their arms / semtex, and the Irish government to amend articles 2 and 3 of the Irish constitution. 

    Now away you go trying to spin your ignorance yet again of what the GFA actually is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Wrong, you have been caught lying yet again. If you look back, you will see your post no 4321 was in reply to a post of mine.

    Stop diverting with your usual insults to other posters when you have been caught out yet again. It is quite amusing to see how childish you are using the same insults time and time again ("doozy trope", "belligerent Unionism", "ignorance" etc ).

    You still did not answer the question:

    Before a possible poll, do you not think people would need to know what they would be voting for - what it would mean for taxes, pensions, loss of free trade between N.I. and Britain, division of N.I.'s share of UK national debt, possible reduction in NATO territory, flag, anthem, commonwealth, etc? After Brexit, it would be absurd for people to vote for a pig in a poke.

    A simple yes or no will suffice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Wrong, you have been caught lying yet again. If you look back, you will see your post no 4321 was in reply to a post of mine.

    There is nothing false in that reply.
    Within the GFA is a guarantee of a transition to a UI.
    The only way a UI can happen is via democratic vote.

    It is assumed you would also know this if you had read the GFA. Which both governments have agreed and all parties bar the DUP and TUV have signed up to.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,609 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Francie never answers direct questions where they could be pinned to answers in the future. Deflect, obfuscate and argue in circles is their consistent posting style.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Do you think

     The purpose of the GFA was to get the terrorists to surrender their arms / semtex, and the Irish government to amend articles 2 and 3 of the Irish constitution. 

    Vin?

    Francis asks questions that have already been answered several times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 192 ✭✭buckmulligan16




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Maybe you folk could tell me what I haven't answered?

    As I said, Francis keeps asking already answered questions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    not only have you been promising a UI for decades, you’ve been saying a 30-40,000 seater was a done deal at casement since the early 2,000s. Looks like it’s in further trouble

    tinyurl.com/57wxe5tu



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,217 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    May as well just set up Jamie Bryson's twitter reposts at this point, Downcow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    don’t talk in riddles. What exactly are you saying.

    I’m simply pointing out that it is easy to make claims about the distant future, like there will be a UI. It’s impossible to prove these things won’t happen, we just have to wait and watch them fail.
    In 1921 a ui was expected to happen within 5 years - 105 and it is still no closer.
    to the best of my knowledge, never in the history of the universe has a country reunited after 100 years - so you are looking to achieve something that has never been achieved anywhere, and telling us it’s a done deal 🙈



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And if it suits, you'll stamp your foot and tell us adamantly that the 'country' was never united.

    P.S. who here has claimed it's a 'done deal'? There has to be democratic majorities and THEN as per the GFA, it is a done deal:

    (iv) affirm that if, in the future, the people of the island of Ireland exercise their right of self-determination on the basis set out in sections (i) and (ii) above to bring about a united Ireland, it will be a binding obligation on both Governments to introduce and support in their respective Parliaments legislation to give effect to that wish;

    *bolding mine



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,217 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    I thought I was being pretty direct; I meant exactly what I said. Your recent posting has been little more than repeating whatever is on Jamie Bryson's twitter. I'm sure anyone who wants to read what Bryson thinks about whatever topic he's ranting about on any given day can find it pretty easily.

    Your own thoughts and/or analysis would certainly be of more interest to me than your recent trend of just reposting whatever you find on social media.

    To be clear, that is a suggestion rather than an instruction; I'm not a mod of course.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    why don’t you report me again if my posts are irking with you!

    Do I assume you follow Jamie closely on twitter?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Why don’t you tell us at what point in history the island of Ireland was united (except when forced by the big bad brits).

    here are a few historical facts/reasons you have an uphill battle

    1. The 32-county island has never been an independent country outside of UK rule.
    2. There’s not a single global precedent anywhere for a region split for a century reuniting into one country.
    3. Despite the challenges of Brexit Northern Ireland population still prefer the remain in the UK.
    4. Despite the current apparent wealth of Eire the Northern Ireland population still prefer the remain in the UK.
    5. The IRA’s attempts to bully, bomb and shoot the people into a UI, never changed public opinion.
    6. On a global scale, I can count on one hand the number of places which have had longer continuous governance than Northern Ireland.

    It is such a ridiculous far-fetched aspiration to unite the island, outside the uk. Unification would be fairly easy if you rejoined the family. You are aspiring to something new and unique - it’s a bit of a pipe dream



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,217 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Oh boo hoo, take your victim complex to someone who cares. I don't recall reporting any of your posts but if you received moderation, the issue was with your post rather than whoever reported it clearly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Here is what you said:

    never in the history of the universe has a country reunited after 100 years

    If it wasn't a UNITED entity how could it 'RE-unite'?

    Make your mind up, you want it everyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    On a global scale, I can count on one hand the number of places which have had longer continuous governance than Northern Ireland.

    BTW The 'government of Northern Ireland and it's PM office was abolished in 1973. 'Continuous' my Fenian derriere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I think you will probably find that the passport of the UK of Great Britain and Northern Ireland says Northern Ireland before 1973, and after 1973. No question that Northern Ireland existed for over a century now.

    Even RTE admits that. Incidentally, I have never heard of anyone talk about the political leanings of their derriere but you, but if you want to accuse anyone of having fenian derriere's they would probably feel insulted if you did not include them. And despite their creditentials, they still say N.Ireland existed for a century.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    When are you going to take back your statement "The GFA guarantees a transition to a UI."

    You also claimed some posts later that "Within the GFA is a guarantee of a transition to a UI."

    You clearly do not understand the GFA. The transition to a U.I. is condititional on, and can only happen IF the majority of the people in both jurisdictions ( N. Ireland and Rep of I. ) wanting and voting for a U.I.

    My transition to a life of luxury in a luxury beach-front villa in the sun is conditional on me coming in to a very large sum of money (eg winning the euromillions) and having the health to enjoy it.

    Neither of there 2 transitions ( your U.I. or me living in a a 10 million euro beach-front villa in the sun) are guaranteed.

    Also, be careful what you wish for. Great wishing for your Utopia of a U.I., but I remember before Brexit people who wanted Brexit wishing for the Utopia of Brexit because it would answer all their perceived problems re immigration, food prices in the UK would fall 20%, the NHS would have an extra £350 million per week etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Poster claimed ‘continual governance’.

    Wrong - the ‘Government of NI’ was abolished in 1973 and was replaced by a devolved executive, I.E. governance was discontinyed because of the mess the one party government had made.. The ‘government ‘ of NI is now in Westminster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I quoted the relevant clause above which spells out the ‘binding obligation’ to create a UI on both governments.

    The transition has been guaranteed.

    If you can’t accept that take it up with the government and those who voted for the GFA



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You forgot the words "if, in the future"

    "if, in the future" the majority in both jurisdictions ( N.I. and Rep of I) vote for it there will be a U.I.

    "if, in the future" I win the euromillions and have the health to do so, I will buy a beach front luxury villa in the sun (with swimming pool and yacht).

    Neither transition is guaranteed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I didn’t forget a thing.

    The transition to a UI is guaranteed in the GFA.

    A ‘transition’ is not a vote.

    In adult debates, unless you are a dissident, it is assumed when talking about the GFA that you know a UI can only happen if a majority decide that.



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