Mass shooting on Bondi Beach

As a devout atheist I would too, and I really hope future generations will shake this evil off. But we cannot ignore the fact that religion shaped the world as it is today, and Christianity for all its defects managed to build a better world than any others. Indeed, as you say, some religions are "just jerseys now". But not all of them, and clearly not islam (again, just as you said it), for most of its followers it's still a religion to be followed by the letter.

It is not saying that blame is the same as justification.

Let's take one of these examples:

The Treaty of Versailles contributing to conditions that enabled Hitler's rise is partially justifying Nazism.

True, but that is not what the poster is saying. It is more akin to saying that the Allied side in the first world war are partly morally responsible for the Nazism by upsetting Hitler in their demands for reparations. This is different to the the Treaty of Versailles merely being an impersonal contributory factor. It is in a sense a kind of partial justification. Hitler was partly justified because he was unjustly provoked by the treaty is the implication here.

This kind of argument was used by Sinn Fein during the Troubles along the lines of "Yes, it is regrettable that these people died during the explosion but the responsibility lies with the British for their treatment of…". This is an attempt to justify the IRAs actions by putting the blame on another group for provoking them.

Blame shifting.

Not sure what your first sentence is supposed to mean, please correct it — or are you now backtracking and saying blame is not the same as justification?

The Treaty of Versailles was a factor in World War II starting, due to the unfair terms, for many Germans the first war never ended, it was just suspended and later continued. This is not the same thing as justifying the war, the rise of Hitler, or Nazism.

The only person here saying Hitler or the terrorists in Sydney were partially justified is you.

Blame != Justification.

I'm afraid you are getting very confused. I never said blame was the same as justification. Nor did I say Hitler or the terrorists were partly justified. I was saying that was the implication of what another poster said. Maybe take a break and then read back over the conversation.

pol pot, Stalin, Mao all atheist ! great record their

If he was radicalised since 2019 and not involved in any forms of terrorism that we or the Australian authorities know of - with him having easy access to a hoard of weapons in the 6 years since - does it not strongly suggest that something that occurred recently resulted in him going on this killing spree. The genocide in Gaza perhaps ?

Great post, right up until the last sentence, unless I am missing something.

Are you saying Australian Jews are responsible?

I think it is fair to say the state of Israel bears some responsibility — without justifying the attack -- though I think it's a bit of a leap to extend that to Jews in another country.

Even if the victims conflated calls for peace or Palestinian rights with anti-semitism, I could not say they are responsible for being murdered.

The moral responsibility lies with the attackers, though Israel's genocide was likely a factor in their radicalisation.

Over there, not here. Big difference.

Absolutely not, fixed the last line to be sure it isn't picked up wrong.

Jews anywhere are not responsible for Israeli crimes. They have absolutely no say over policy. Those responsible for war crimes are Israeli leadership and military, because they are the ones who committed the crimes, Jewish or otherwise.

Genuine antisemites want to hold all Jews collectively responsible for these. I have no doubt that is why the people on Bondi beach were targeted. These crimes are on them.

But that is also the rhetoric of pro Israeli posters, politicians, and other Western leaders

They use antisemitism accusations against those who criticise Israeli policy, which the experts tell us amount to genocidal acts. Their rhetoric does nothing else but tell us these are Jewish crimes (rather than Israeli), as it makes it harder to proceed with prosecution if they can take the crimes out of the hands of those that did it and facilitated it.

Both povs (though done for different reasons), are in affect antisemetic and both give greater risk to Jewish communities everywhere, including the community that suffered this attack.

That’s a bit of a reductive and (if you’ll forgive me) irrelevant analogy - neither world war was started in the name of Christianity or in the pursuit of Christian doctrine. The fact that they were started by countries that are largely Christian is incidental.

The same cannot be said of Islamic terrorism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

Israel’s reaction to Oct 7 was simply way too much and they have to be held to account , as do terrorist organisations like Hamas .

They are facts , the problem is European governments and the EU”s attitude to this . We as a society are absolutely petrified of the word racism , we are turning ourselves inside out to accommodate radicalised refugees from countries that have nothing to do with us .

We, especially in Ireland aren’t responsible, we don’t have to say sorry for ancient Middle Eastern conflicts . We can condemn the atrocities at the same time as making sure our country is a safe place and nothing like this happens in our country .

The longer we keep accepting angry Islamists ( even if they have a right to be angry in their own minds and beliefs ) into our country , the more we put our children at risk .

I’d rather be called a racist than run the risk of some religious lunatic murder innocent people on the streets of Dublin

But yea that could never happen , the same as it could have never happened on Bondi this time last week