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Star trek academy series

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Over the years we've gotten to meet various ancestors of Noonian Soong, all bearing a significant resemblance to Brent Spiner. Instead of bringing Robert Picardo back as the EMH, why not have him play a descendant of the original Starfleet Officer the EMH was based on?

    Having a 72 year old EMH makes zero sense to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,227 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    I absolutely hate that thing they do with all these identical ancestors. It's the dumbest of all solutions. But they generally did that cause they wanted the actor involved, when their previous character's presence was impossible in the story - here they have the easiest get-out, which is that The Doctor is basically immortal. So instead of just some ancestor of the original Doctor's designer, who somehow looks identical to his great great great great great great (you get the idea) grandda, they get to actually have the same person. The same character everyone loved on Voyager, who can bring those experiences into the storylines etc.

    A fully sentient and long since recognised as completely independent - no longer just an EMH - Doctor who himself decided to tweak his visual programming a bit over the centuries is a far better solution imo. Maybe as a Professor at the academy now, he wanted to look more distinguished… whatever personal reason they decide upon for him. They did exactly that with John De Lancie in Picard, and it worked a treat.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,717 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Jesus, for a moment there I thought you were gonna say bring back Spiner. Nothing against the guy but every time they brought him back as a Soong or Singh or whatever, it got campier and campier.

    But yeah, having an descendant would make a lot more sense. You could throw in a casual line about how he looks EXACTLY like the original EMH from 900 years earlier. Having him as the human descendant would also allow him to play slightly different if he wanted. I seem to remember that the person he was based on was a bit of an assh*le?

    I'll give it a look. I try to go in with an open mind but I'm afraid that it looks like more of the same Disco stuff. I mean I do hope to be surprised. SNW had a poor season 3 but I do believe they will rebound in the remaining series.

    BUT, if this is more Discovery TNG then I think it would be time for Paramount to take a break with Trek and come back with something new after a couple of years. No relation to any current or previous series. Time to be brave and try a show like DS9 again or a totally different genre but in the Trek universe. Cop show or something/ Think of "The Expanse" grittiness and "Low lever" characters (Not flagship captains) but in Trek universe. Smugglers in the Delta Quadrant maybe 50 years after DS9. Shifting politics post Dominion war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,227 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    I think the reasoning here has gone a bit backwards — I don't think they started with Robert Picardo, and said "we want him in no matter what!", I would guess they were looking for some tangible connection to the older shows rather than just all Burnham-Trek, and someone said "oh, the doctor's a program, so he's immortal — he could be carried over as a lineage tie in to the past shows - let's see if Bob Picardo would be up for that".

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,599 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    I think thats pretty much exactly what happened.

    So they invited Picardo over for a chat, pitched the idea to him and he was all for it.

    But one thing did not happen. After the chat with him, no-one said "You know, he looks a lot older than I was expecting. Is this still a good idea?"

     They did exactly that with John De Lancie in Picard, and it worked a treat.

    Qs age in time spans measured in millenia not years but it makes sense that they do age and so showed an aging or aged Q. Which makes perfect sense and as you said worked a treat.

    Holograms do not age. So the EMH appearing old doesn't make sense.

    I know its only a tiny thing to get annoyed about, but it indicates a lack of attention to detail. If the writers and producers are willing to overlook that and are hoping the audience will over look it, you have to wonder what else will they over look and hope we will over look as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,227 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    That's not what happened with Q - he popped up for a few seconds looking exactly as he always used to, using de-aging. He looked at Picard and said something to the effect of; "Oh you're very old - hang on a sec" and then he popped into his (John De Lancie's) own normal age. He simply chose what he wanted to look like to fit his mood and the situation (obviously in a way that facilitated production).

    The exact same thing easily works here, and to be honest - for me at least - fits in perfectly with his character progression. He's specifically not just a holographic tool anymore. He's long since outgrown that, ever since he got the mobile emitter, and they put in rules that he was no longer to be switched off without his consent, etc. Like, in canon he won a legal battle for personhood, and got a commission as Lieutenant Commander. He's very much a singular individual, rather than just 1 of thousands of identical EMH's. And in this show, he's specifically not an emergency medical hologram at all, he's just a sentient, individual hologram — and he's a professor, and a senior figure of experience. So, all that being said, it makes total sense to me that he might choose to express that individuality in different ways over time, given that he sees himself as (and is legally) a total unique individual, and has total control of his own appearance. An extremely easy fix to be able to feature a classic character.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    OK, to be honest, I could not remember what happened in ST Picard. I would say maybe it's time for a rewatch but there were some things that really annoyed me in the first and second season.

    I get what you are saying. I just hope they explain it as eloquently as you have "in program".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,227 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Oof, yeah, that Q season (Season 2) ended up being a very rough watch. Not sure i'll ever bring myself to revisiting it to be honest! The Q appearance had such potential too, and John De Lancie's always great, but it was all kinda squandered.

    Good entry scene though;

    There are a lot of things I'm uncertain about with this new Academy series, but I think the Doctor element is grand, and is an easy couple of lines to make sense of - though I do hope they treat him as a major character, and touch upon what he's been up to over the centuries. His grounded surliness could be a good antidote for all the CW-style teen drama we're bound to encounter.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Yeah there was lots squandered. Not to bring the thread off topic, but in Season 1 of Picard, when Picard is in danger on the planet with the giant flowers, how cool would it have been for Hugh to arrive in the reclaimed Borg cube to rescue him? That would have been awesome! But no.

    His grounded surliness could be a good antidote for all the CW-style teen drama we're bound to encounter.

    Thats a great point. I'll be happy to overlook the age thing if he doesn't treat the cadets with kid gloves.

    EMH:"Im professor of Medicine, not a therapist"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,513 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Not sure u would trust him around teens after the way he tried to groom 7.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,847 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,275 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    S2 started off great. Had real potential. But very quickly fell off the tracks.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,847 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Yes I agree. Most if it was just terrible. The only good episode are tgecfurst two and the last one in that season. I do nit think the rest of it will age well. Its old now ffs based in 2024. What a stupid idea.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,805 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Picard in general was a disaster. Half baked ideas, ignorance of continuity, a lead who had no interest in doing anything other than being himself and far, FAR too many Noonien-Soongs!

    Season 3 is closest to what the series should have been in general but it still boils down to getting the band back together for one last mission, which All Good Things already did, and did it better.

    I have higher hopes for the Academy series - mostly all new characters and far enough away for them to not have to step on any continuity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Toby Ziegler in The West Wing once said "And when you reference pop culture, your speech has a shelf life of about 15 minutes".

    You might think that they had learnt that lesson from "The Voyage Home", by setting it partly in the current day but no. Modern trek writers seem to be slow learners.

    The one good thing about academy as @McFly85 said, it is far enough into the future is that it can't sh*t on established canon too much.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,717 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Either that or be intentionally anachronistic.

    Compare Back To The Future Part 2 (Set in future 2015) and Bladerunner (Set in 2019). I know BTTF is partially played for laughs but still.

    Of course neither is even remotely accurate but I always thought of Bladerunner as being an alternative timeline. That androids for example were around in some form since the Bladerunner 80s. That we didn't get from OUR 1982 (Year Bladerunner was made) to that 2019. That, given the industrialisation on display that this could have branched off from the 1920s at the latest. Possibly maybe branched off from the late 1800s.

    Whereas BTTF2 was really supposed to be OUR 2015.

    I also remember something kinda similar in the dull Battlestar Galactica spinoff Caprica: The scientist who created the first generation of cylons downloaded his daughter's consciousness. Actually said it was something like 128 gigabytes. Which, even at the time, was not a huge amount of storage. That countered expectations. Previously the temptation would have been to say in the 80's it would be something unimaginably massive like "To download EVERYTHING you'sd need a huge computer with over 1TERRABYTE of storage! There just isn't' enough memory in the world!!!!!!!"

    Having said all that, and tying into the general thread, I did enjoy Tig Naturo in Discovery. I thought she was funny. Liked her mannerisms and even her sort of pop culture references ("I dreamed I was playing bass with Prince. Weird" or similar). Because, yes, it was more 21st Century than 31st but at least it wasn't "Wow, you're a musical genius. Like Nathan Carter!"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Compare Back To The Future Part 2 (Set in future 2015) and Bladerunner (Set in 2019). I know BTTF is partially played for laughs but still.

    Funnily enough I was in a shopping centre recently and every girl aged 14-22-ish was wearing skin tight leggings. I got a flashback to Marty in 2015, so it kind of got one thing right, and only off by 10 years.

    Academy is going to be set 1000 years from now. Plenty of scope for the writers to make stuff up. Also plenty of room for them to make a balls of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Id half agree with the idea that Picard was a disaster. For me its failure was mitigated by a half decent season 3, and my general love of the characters throughout. Season 2 was ruined by the last few episodes, but i was very enthusiastic as it began.

    The characters of TNG are the ones that many of us grew up with. And therefore we love the character elements within Picard, even if we hate some of the general story telling. It was the inclusion of our cherished heroes that made many of us forgive the negative aspects of the show.

    In terms of Academy, I dont have any confidence in it at all. I can see it being character driven, which explains the inclusion of the Doctor. Who for me, is only there to serve as Fan Bait. Aside from Doc, this show feels like Discovery 2.0 and I expect more Burnham like characters who we will be 'pushed' into liking.

    I grew to hate the cast of discovery, even Saru toward the end. Im not at all enthusiastic to see Tilly again. Literally couldnt stand her from day one. The fact that she took so much airtime away from other more senior crew members, only infuriated me more. From day one, Discovery seemed to do something that other trek shows never attempted. We were basically TOLD we must like the main character (spocks secret sister), and then pushed into appreciating the others, whom the writers felt 'worthy' of fleshing out.

    And i could see this being the case with Academy.

    And another thing: Why do the writers think a Starfleet Academy based show will be in any way entertaining?

    I remember this concept being discussed decades ago, after Enterprise. Wasnt it Berman and Braga who floated this concept way back when? I was glad when it didnt materialize. JJ obviously included elements in JJtrek-1, but i would hardly call this successful.

    I sincerely ask my fellow trekkies- When you think of our Franchise, do any of you yearn to see a bunch of cadets play at being officers? Do any of us really want this? An occasional episode based around Starfleet Academy is fine, but an entire show?? For me, I struggle to be enthused at all.

    In my opinion, this is another attempt to create a NOT TREK version of Star Trek - for NON trekkies, with an emphasis of bringing in 'new fans' - and a character driven narrative, where we are urged to 'see it from the POV of this or that cadet' -

    In my opinion, everytime they attempt this - it backfires.

    • Enterprise was the first such attempt, and the creators even removed 'Star Trek' from the title for the first few seasons. It was a total disaster, and arguably played a part in killing trek for a long time. Yes we fondly recall it now, because as bad as it was, at times, it is BEST OF BOTH WORLDS compared to JJ and Disco.
    • JJTrek was modestly successful, but many fans, including me, dont view it as star trek at all. And I am squarly in the camp of having zero interest in a fourth movie.
    • Discovery at least attempted to appeal to fans, but as the show rolled on, and the stories became totally character driven, I yawned a lot. If the fandom grew in any way, during the shows run - i havent seen evidence of it. The rotten tomato user ratings for discovery are the lowest in franchise history. Writers and defenders criticize these scores and call many of us toxic fans. But i have struggled to find a real trekkie who does not view Disco as an abomination.

    Iv said I will wait and see what you folks think of Academy, and I will. I fully expect its critical reviews from professional outlets to be stellar - but if ACTUAL Fans, like the people on here; if you folks confirm my worst fears of the show, then il be avoiding it.

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,717 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    And that was one of the (many) problems I had with the later seasons of you know what. Everything was basically magic. (And yes, I know the Clarke quote). But they didn't walk or take the lift from one floor to another. They teleported. FFS, they teleported from the captains quarters to the bridge. (I hope they don't need to burn off carbs in the far future). Why? "Here, take my phaser to overload as a bomb. I'll teleport another one (As opposed to teleporting a bomb)". Why? Don't bother with that neat little tricorder with an efficient little screen. Use some… I don't know… holographic implant that TOTALLY lights up everything and surrounds you. Why? (OK, that does give more info at hand. I'll give them that) Don't use interfaces, buttons, controls. Use nanobots. Why? Don't have engines attached to your ship. Have them floating a few meters away. Based upon size of ships, maybe 100M meters or so away. Why?

    Kirk/Scotty drinking (sinful) Guinness. Why not? Why wouldn't it be around then. Don't need Trek to come up with some "futuristic" Space-Stout ™. Pike watching "The Day The Earth Stood Still". Bit n the nose but still.

    And you mean to tell me that technology, society has moved on so little in 1000 years that someone from 1000 years ago can teach modern technology? Yes, I know sad alien destroyed warp for like 200 years or so but still. It would be like someone from the 11th Century teaching today.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    In Picard there was a bit with a gadget that would put Harry Potters wand to shame. You just thought of the solution and it would fix anything. And that was Picard so what, 24th Century? Not a thousand years from now.

    Yes, in Disco in the 31st century there were some tech "improvements" that make no sense. Warp nacelles that are not connected to the ship. What is that advantage?

    Captain: Helm, take us to Kron'os, maximum warp.

    Helmsman: Just a moment sir, I'm waiting for the warp nacelles to pair with helm control

    Captain: Can't you reset the EPS conduit?

    Helmsman: Well.. no sir, now that we are using the floating, disconnected nacelles, there is nolonger an EPS conduit to reset, we just have to wait until we pair with the nacelle. It's usually instant, but sometimes, well, look:

    Untitled Image

    "Syncing with nacelles, please wait".

    FFS, they teleported from the captains quarters to the bridge.

    I wonder do they still use the bathroom in the 31st century, or do they just beam the poop out. Do their morning ablutions consist of "Computer, one turd to transport direct to the jacks"?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,275 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Thought the poop was added to the replicator to make food?

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    I honestly never thought about it at any level of detail.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,275 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    I only say that because I think the Admiral mentioned that to the Orion Queen yoke in S3 Discovery.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 952 ✭✭✭somuj


    Makes sense. It's just a bunch of atoms.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,909 ✭✭✭Evade




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    4 minute clip from the series:

    https://blog.trekcore.com/2025/12/star-trek-starfleet-academy-premiere-clip-ccxp25/

    I'll be honest, that doesn't look too bad.

    Funny that 1000 years into the future they still manually say "shields up".

    I really like the captains uniform. Akin to the TOS movie uniform. Hardly a coincidence?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 542 ✭✭✭eadrom


    Oh no, I think that looks awful.

    “Multiple injuries […] but no casualties”

    Casualties includes injuries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,513 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The woman in yellow with the short hair is Becky Lynch the Irish wrestler.

    That captains uniform just looks too much like a standard TOS uniform.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 542 ✭✭✭eadrom


    The whole ship looks effectively pre-TOS now too. As in it looks like USS Discovery, a 1,000 (or something like that?) year old ship.

    And those manic camera operators are back, too.



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