Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 02/09/25*

That's nuts, in South Korea a whole city cost 40 billion dollars.

We don't have to give citizenship to people so why should we.

What benefit does it actually provide for Irish people, people can work and pay taxes without citizenship so it provides no benefits to Ireland as a country.I have no problem with some people being given citizenship but it;'s being handed out too easily in my opinion.

The replacement theory is real whether you want to believe it or not, between 20% and 25% of the people living in Ireland today were not born in Ireland, that'll keep on increasing over the years and this demographic change has essentially happened in the last 30 years where prior to that we had barely anybody living in the country who were born overseas. There has been an even bigger demographic change in the UK in a similar period , entire parts of cities changing beyond recognition in a few decades.You can pretend it isnt happening if you want but it definitely is happening.

Truth is you can't actually find any argument against people who point out that ethnic replacement is happening so you pretend it's purely a racist conspiracy theory and beneath you so you won't bother arguing, when in fact it's just basically observable reality.

It is possible to have an emigration system which allows people to move to a country live here and yet still keep the numbers low enough so it doesn't stretch resources and stop people who are unlikely to benefit the country from being allowed to emigrate.

Can you not stick your question on citizenship into chatgpt and get a little informed before spouting a load of nonsense online?
Of course there are major economic and social benefits to citizenship. That's why just about every country in the world does it. Is every country having their population replaced? How's that going to work?

The replacement theory is not real. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Truth is you can't actually find any argument against people who point out that ethnic replacement is happening so you pretend it's purely a racist conspiracy theory and beneath you so you won't bother arguing, when in fact it's just basically observable reality.

I don't need to even look this up. The fertility rate in Ireland has fallen from a peak of about 4 kids per woman in the mid 60s to about 1.5 kids today. The ethnic Irish are in decline of their own accord.
Added to that we have an attractive economy where we cannot fill the roles available with the native population, and you have a requirement for plenty of immigration just to keep things afloat.

The origins of the replacement theory come from far-right racist lunatics. It's not happening. It requires a malevolent global elite who are orchestrating it all for some mad reason. It's just completely and utterly mad and stupid.

So you admit the replacement itself is real but it is not being done intentionally?

Pointing out that the demographics of Ireland are changing is fine.

Suggesting that government policy is driving that demographic change is not just a far-right but also racist conspiracy theory.

So the difference is that when the "ethnic Irish" (your words, not mine) are "in decline of their own accord" that's just the way the world is but if it's suggested that local government or EU policy is responsible for the decline then it crosses over to very racist replacement theory?

The cost of getting an Irish passport should be a lot more expensive than it is.

A citizenship test should also be a requirement and people should have to provide evidence they have always been working and not getting any benefits.

the replacement is as follows: don't worry about Irish people not producing enough children to be our future workforce we can import them from abroad instead and we go for a 99% Irish ethnicity country to a 75% Irish ethnicity in 30 years. Thats ethnic replacement,as we go from a mono-ethnic society to a multi ethnic society and one without the consent of the people (as 75-80% of people in Ireland believe we're taking in too many immigrants)

We should be aiming for a reduction in population long term (as should every country).Doom has been predicted for Japan for 30 years or more and it's still ticking along alright, no great growth but not disastrous. Also the Japanese have recently voted in a right wing leader who wants to reduce immigration.

Again you're advocating never ending population growth, this is not a good way to run the world and more effort should have been made to fix this. The world cannot cope with the population it has currently, Ireland cannot cope with it's current level of population either.

Immigration works when it's kept at a low level and immigrants because they are so small in number have no choice but integrate.

Once you increase the number of immigrants higher and higher there is less a need for them to become Irish and integrate and they just keep to their own immigrant group and look out for their own interests. We've see this in the UK and USA where people who are of certain ethnic backgrounds all live together in certain areas , vote for political candidates based on their ancestry.

All the supposed economic growth in the last 20 years where immigrants have had to be brought in to fill jobs hasn't been beneficial to Ireland. We'd have been better off just letting the jobs go to other countries rather than taking in jobs and then having to import people to fill them. I don't think anybody could honestly make the argument that Ireland is more prosperous today than it was 20 years ago and that people's lives are better today, it's impossible to buy a house, schools, hospitals and prisons are overcrowded.

the replacement is as follows: don't worry about Irish people not producing enough children to be our future workforce we can import them from abroad instead and we go for a 99% Irish ethnicity country to a 75% Irish ethnicity in 30 years. Thats ethnic replacement,as we go from a mono-ethnic society to a multi ethnic society and one without the consent of the people (as 75-80% of people in Ireland believe we're taking in too many immigrants)

Again there's literally not a single person replaced here in your updated replacement theory.

You clearly just have a problem with assimilating other peoples and cultures into our own.
You know our culture and society is shifting constantly with or without immigration, right?
You've a lot more in common with a modern Albanian than you do a Cromwell era peasant.

We should be aiming for a reduction in population long term (as should every country).Doom has been predicted for Japan for 30 years or more and it's still ticking along alright, no great growth but not disastrous. Also the Japanese have recently voted in a right wing leader who wants to reduce immigration.

A reduction in population long term, in every country is a near certainty. We don't need to aim for it. We need to mitigate.
The Japanese are not ticking along alright. Much like South Korea, the demographic catastrophe is baked in at this stage.

Again you're advocating never ending population growth, this is not a good way to run the world and more effort should have been made to fix this. The world cannot cope with the population it has currently, Ireland cannot cope with it's current level of population either.

I'm absolutely not advocating never ending population growth. I'm saying the population of the world is on the precipice of collapse.
You have everything backwards in this - including how Ireland can't cope with its current population level. A shrinking population puts huge burden on those of working age. Yanking out immigrants would collapse the country.

Immigration works when it's kept at a low level and immigrants because they are so small in number have no choice but integrate.

Once you increase the number of immigrants higher and higher there is less a need for them to become Irish and integrate and they just keep to their own immigrant group and look out for their own interests. We've see this in the UK and USA where people who are of certain ethnic backgrounds all live together in certain areas , vote for political candidates based on their ancestry.

You're describing literally every American, bar the natives.

Also citizenship is a part of avoiding

All the supposed economic growth in the last 20 years where immigrants have had to be brought in to fill jobs hasn't been beneficial to Ireland. We'd have been better off just letting the jobs go to other countries rather than taking in jobs and then having to import people to fill them. I don't think anybody could honestly make the argument that Ireland is more prosperous today than it was 20 years ago and that people's lives are better today, it's impossible to buy a house, schools, hospitals and prisons are overcrowded.

Correlation is not causation. You're ignoring a range of economic, political and global factors because you're well, a racist

No the housing crisis is clearly exacerbated by increase in population which has been caused mainly by immigration. I genuinely don't care whether it's correlation or causation fact is excessive immigration has made it worse than it should .

Your American example is a good one as it just proves what happens to the native population with excessive immigration, it's a tragedy when it happens to a native population who are brown but apparently it's a good thing when it happens to a native population who are white and we should put up with it.

I don't view Ireland as an economy first and foremost and a big social welfare scheme like you seem to be doing, if reducing immigrants puts even more strain on the welfare state then fair enough, this type of thinking about needing more and more people to prop up the welfare state is the problem in the first place, maybe people need to accept it's not the right way to run any society and come up with a way around it , state pension will probably be gone in 30-40 years anyway, i'd rather not keep changing the country for the sake of maybe another decade of pensions.also all those immigrants have to get their pension aswell so will we have to keep importing more and more immigrants to pay for the pensions of the immigrants who were there before them.

we shouldn't have to assimilate other cultures into our own, the burden of assimilation should be 100% on the people who move to the new country, if someone Irish goes to live in Germany it should 100% be on the person to learn to speak German etc.

Japan is ticking along fine, trains still run on time, it's clean , people have jobs, they'll find a way of adjusting without having to destroy the fabric of the country.

Culture is changing all the time, the difference is it generally has changed organically over time not being forced into sudden changes due to government policies.

The comparison between a modern Albanian and Cromwell era peasant doesn't really work though as most people today already are aware that have more in common with any other person across the world today be they Albanian, Chinese, Nigerian than they do with someone from their own country 500 years ago.It still doesn't mean they are any less Irish/English/French etc than their ancestors from 500 years ago .

one way to reduce the draw of our citizenship is to ban dual citizenships. Lets see how many truly want to revoke their birth place citizenship. Eitherway, if it was up to me, I'd increase the time frame to 10 years of living and contributing to the state and make it only applicable to people with blood ties to the country, but that's just my opinion.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-18519395

Peter Sutherland's big plan for immigration

Sean Moncrief has newstalks favourite refugee spokesman Nick Henderson on explaining how unfair Irelands proposed new laws are, especially not allowing full family reunification. Apparently all refugees are fleeing war, none just coming for benefits. He’s very concerned that we are trying to match the UK.

Said he doesn’t believe that the figure of 80% coming over the border is correct, that it could include refugees who came through Dublin Airport who later claimed asylum, wtf???

And was there any questioning of his statements?

These people just reject reality and substitute their own

Similarly the Journal had an immigration article today, I can’t recall the name of the writer but he’s been on it before and he’s an absolute wet wipe. Won’t be looking it up as I’m not giving that crap a click.
Article was essentially saying everything is hunky dory and dismissed anything idea of a hardening attitude amongst the electorate, totally ignored all the recent polling that says the opposite to him.
The usual fingers in the ears Lalalalala tactic of so many open borders advocates we’ve seen come and go in this thread.

Doubtless if the same polls found 82% positive feelings amongst voters towards the government handling of the topic he’d have been front and centre with it

Land of milk and honey, life time of welfare and housing, citizenship handed out after of few years (for contributing zero and getting away with lying about their reason for asylum). Sure why wouldnt they come here.

Suds had a bit of a thin skin when people would criticise him….

294k uk, 139k Ukraine, 102k Poland, 73k India, 51k Brazil, 59k Romania, 37k United states, 35k Lithuania, 22k Nigeria, Where are the other 1 million in your figure of 25%, did they arrive from Mars?

Replacement theory my ass.