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DCC wants to rename Herzog Park

1235

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,477 ✭✭✭Economics101


    This thread has descended into total bolloxology all round.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,062 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Exactly, the actions of the present Israeli government has no relevance to a park named 30 years ago and no relevance to this thread.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    While I agree with the general point, that is a bizarre slur on Casement. There is absolutely nothing to suggest he was a paedophile, only supposed diaries of incredibly dubious origin suggesting that he had a fondness for younger men, published by a govt who Casement had spent years embarrassing with his investigations into imperial abuse in Africa and who jumped at the chance to use his homosexuality to condemn him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,856 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    The bloggers from the other thread have weighed in now but it lasted longer than expected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,525 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    I know the diaries are contested but not disproved. Secondly, as with Oscar Wilde, I think that sadly, sexual exploitation of impoverished teenage boys by a wealthy older man was commonplace.

    As I understand it, homosexuality alone would have been more than enough for Casement's reputation to be ruined at the time, so the effort involved in making such a complete record including young boys would not have been necessary. But ifyou prefer, obviously he's an alleged paedophile, not a proven one.

    I'm sure there are plenty of other dubious characters whom we still "honour" in placenames and parks. And what about all the names of English aristocrats who were actively against the existence of Ireland? Shouldn't we start by renaming Grafton Street and Talbot Street? This is such a blatantly obvious piece of antisemitism.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭Fotish


    Helen McEntee has already said that she is opposed to the changing of the name, that in itself is a good enough reason to change it !
    She brings up that hoary old chestnut “ Inclusivity “ , maybe she thinks genocide is Inclusive ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,906 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    And how is any of that in anyway relevant to this park?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,198 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    The bang of homophobia off you is overwhelming.

    You've wrapped up your feminism with your homophobia and it's a genuinely repulsive thing to see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,523 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Wait, surely the obvious reason no one cares is that they are not only black but they are African. Black africans die in their droves, noone gives a **** apparently, whatever the religion. Look at Sudan right now. Sorry just couldn't ignore "the reason for thats simple", yeah it is, racism toward black people.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    I wonder how SF will retcon their past involvement with the Herzog family. Probably use the old that was the "0ld IRA" fudge.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,724 ✭✭✭SeanW


    So … no. "No Jews, no news." Thanks for the clarification.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    This is far left nonsense.

    We would want to be very careful, especially the centre not to yield or try to out do these donkeys.

    Trumps greatest gift was the far lefts disproportionate influence on the Democratic party, which used to try in an American way represent ordinary people and workers.

    Instead they gave Trump such gifts as BLM violence during COVID being excused, Defund the police, and the crime wave it lead to, being openly supported, open borders leading to an immigration crisis was another own goal.

    None of us would know Tommy Robinson's name, I know it's a fake one, only for the UK establishment fear of investigating or even name the child rape culture of almost exclusively poor white girls within Kashmiri clan culture. The fear of being called racist or islamaphobic gave these vermin almost free rain for a generation. We still don't know the extent of the problem as it most police districts ethnicity of abusers wasn't recorded.

    Again far left ideology going mainstream giving air and publicity to the violent right.

    This renaming of places is straight out of the far left playbook.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,105 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Thank you once again for your clarification too ,Sean. I see you didn't complain why were people engaging in Russian phobia at the start of the Ukraine war by soley focusing on that war at the expense of others in Africa. Could it be you are only keen to engage in what aboutism because you selectively condemn states committing war crimes . Your asinine and childish mentality reminds me of articles about Russia whining that countries criticising them are Russian phobes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    FG seem to be leading the opposition to this move to dename Herzog Park.

    Tánaiste Simon Harris said on X that he agreed with Ms McEntee's statement, adding: "I completely oppose plans to rename Herzog Park. It is wrong. We are an inclusive Republic. This proposal is offensive to that principle. I urge all party leaders to join me in opposition to this."

    The Jewish Representative Council of Ireland (JRCI) also described the move as "deeply concerning".

    Israeli president condemns motion to rename Dublin park

    Hopefully others will join the growing chorus of disapproval.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,105 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    As for renaming the park, if we are going to be consistent then we should rename a lot of other even more well known street names as they were named after vile individuals who loathed irish people. The man in question , as far as i know, loved Ireland. Who knows what he would have thought of the actions of the current Israeli government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    Before 48? You don't know your history. Firstly Israel was recognised as a state in 1948. Prior to that the whole middle east as we know it was ruled by the ottoman empire and the nations that are there now were created by the Western powers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭cheese sandwich


    The Taoiseach and the Tanaiste have both come out strongly against this proposal, which is positive. So presumably no FF or FG councillors will now support it, notwithstanding that a few FFers questioned by the Irish Times yesterday seemed to be in favour.

    Presumably PBP, SF and the Soc Dems are a lost cause. So hopefully there are enough decent councillors in Labour and the Greens to put a stop to this move



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,525 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    LOL I don't care what adult men do together. But Oscar Wilde, much as I admire him as a writer, abused young servant boys in their early teens. I hope if it were a 13 year old servant girl, you'd think that unacceptable, but perhaps not.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,525 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Absolutely true except that those men also abuse women within their own community, but in that case you get more of a Sara Sharif type situation, where insiders won't say anything because the man is entitled to act as he pleases, and outsiders won't look too closely because of cultural relativism and "sure if she wants to wear a burqa at age 9 who are we to object?"

    But there is no way a man who does things like what happened to thoe girls is going to be a loving husband and father in the rest of his life. But some people would have you believe it's islamophobia to point this out. They're only women after all. On that, a lot of men, of all religions and none, seem to agree.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,724 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Ok, let's compare Israel and Russia.

    Russia is a massive country that regularly attacks its neighbours totally unprovoked (Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine etc) while Israel is a tiny country that is regularly attacked by Iran and its proxies (Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, formerly with the aid of the Assad regime in Syria).

    An objective person might suggest that the Israel-Palestine situation is at least a little more complicated than all the wars the Russians have started.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Probably turning in his grave - especially if his son pardons an alleged War Criminal (at large) currently on the run from The Hague and on trial in Israel for bribery and corruption. Which he has delayed multiple times to continue the Gazan Genocide.

    Odd that anyone would pardon someone who denies committing any crime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    I have listened to a few of the survivors, and while any rape/sexual abuse account is rough listening, the child grooming stories are off the scale.

    It usually starts with a young teenage girl, we are talking as young as 13/14 you starts a relationship with an older but still young Kashmiri teenager.

    Her "boyfriend" then gets her drinking before introducing her to wider group. In many cases they were moved around the country and routinely gang raped.

    The girls typically came for lowest income single parent families/addiction issues etc. They were predominantly white and predominantly girls with a few exceptions.

    Within their own group, the abusers once their sentence was served went straight back to their families/businesses with no in group punishment.

    I say Kashmiri clan culture because that's were these abusers predominantly came from. Pakistan cousin marriage rate is obscene at 60 %, next highest being Afghanistan at 40% with rural Pakistan rates being even higher.

    Within such a clan culture the normal Western culture around policing/justice are entirely subservient to protecting the clan.

    These poor white girls are seen as subhuman to these men. It's entirely racist along with everything else.

    The age of consent is a western concept which these men don't have any regard for irrespective of race. I'd imagine the abusers are beauts at home.

    I bring this up as the UK failing was not investigating lot of these crimes in case it would be seen as racist. It's a far left concept that racism is only something white people can do. This ideology is blind to inter racial racism seen in every civilization. Buying into comes with a really steep price.

    It's the same intellectual bankrupt idea you here around slavery. Etc etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 299 ✭✭Bocadilloo


    Christ, as if Ireland was such a well run country that we have time to be concerned with this type of rubbish.

    True what they say, get a job in the council, you'll never have to work a day in your life



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭dmcdona




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,761 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Much of Council work though is this type of boring, day-to-day stuff related to local issues. It's not as if this idea was one being pitched by government or opposition TDs : probably very few people in the Dáil or media were even aware such a proposal was coming before DCC.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Why haven't we removed every single name connected to Britain so? Plenty of places with Royal in their name too and it isn't the old Irish royals it refers to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,586 ✭✭✭rolling boh


    Might be better if Alan Shatter stayed out of this one .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    I’d say it’s more an obsession with Israel and genocide. No genocide, no obsession.

    You just can’t have an anti Isreal or even anti genocide march without fear of being arrested.

    Why are you so concerned about Irish people being obsessed with supporting a country suffering genocide?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,500 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    How many Palestinians did this Herzog guy murder?



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