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Northern Ireland 2125?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    The only real "jaw-dropping" was when the doctor thought of the opportunity to gouge the middle income families in N.I. with doctors fees of 60 or 70 euro each time they say hello.

    As noted before, it is not unusual for a "Squeezed middle" family to have to fork out over €1000 per year here in the Republic in GP fees, €100 a+e fees etc. If there are say 5 or 6 in a family and each visit a few times a year it soon adds up.

    100% of people in N.I. have free access to healthcare.

    The people of N.I. do not want to pay exorbidant fees for doctors, a&e, vhi etc like here in the Republic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    This is nonsense because you don't want to face the reality that NI medical professionals can see that there is a better way of doing things where the outcomes for the patient are better, like they are here.
    This is also typical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    The great thing about the medical situatiion is that our government spends a lot more per capita on public health than N.I. if a decision is made to go with the N.I. model in a united Ireland, we'll all have lower taxes. Win win for everyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Only reason we sprend more on health is because our wages here that we pay nurses and doctors is higher here - it has to be, because of higher taxes, higher property costs and rents, higher vehicle prices, higher cost of living. And still we have shipped over 170 bus loads of people from Cork alone to N.I. for cataract operations, because we cannot do them here.

    Either go to Belfast or go blind. Imagine if we had a 32 county medical service. We cannot even build a national childrens hospital properly, despite throwing all the borrowed money at it, we are the laughing stock of the world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    As usual the slanted half a picture from Francis.

    As been pointed out to several times when you try this on, the scheme works both ways and 1000's from the North have had treatment and ops here under the Northern Ireland Waiting List Reimbursement Scheme.

    Your desperation is getting comical at this stage.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I never said the scheme did not work both ways. You are continually missing the point though. Which part of the following do you not understand:

    "The current situation, as it has been for years, is only 38% of adults in the Republic have free access to healthcare. It is not unusual for a "Squeezed middle" family to have to fork out over €1000 per year in GP fees, €100 a+e fees etc.

    100% of people in N.I. have free access to healthcare."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    'Free access' to longer waiting lists and much worse outcomes?

    Best of luck selling that one!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Waiting times tend to be longer in the HSE compared to the NHS, you are right. Both health services are under pressure with substantial backlogs, not helped by the pandemic. Outcomes are also complex, as there is a different age profile for a start. Also many more people in Ireland take out and pay for - at a cost typically of thousands - private health insurance ( eg VHI ) compared to in the UK, as most people in the UK seem happy enough with the nhs, and it does not cost them thousands extra per year on TOP of their taxes.

    Now, which part of the following do you not understand:

    "The current situation, as it has been for years, is only 38% of adults in the Republic have free access to healthcare. It is not unusual for a "Squeezed middle" family to have to fork out over €1000 per year in GP fees, €100 a+e fees etc.

    100% of people in N.I. have free access to healthcare."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Once the 'free access' bubble bursts (as it has with that medical professional) you are in for some 'jaw dropping' realisations about which is more important - notional 'free' benefits or better outcomes.

    It ain't rocket science.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Just over a decade ago Leo wanted to make our health care system as good as the NHS. We still have some patients here waiting many years for procedures. Some dying before they get seen to.

    Its ok if you can go to the States for private medical treatment like some politicians have done. Not looking at the ex leader of the party you follow, the great socialist himself.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yes, the NHS is a great concept.

    However, those of us not living in the Britain is perfect fantasy know that the NHS in the UK at present is many many miles away from the 'concept' everyone admires.

    The words most often associated with the NHS these days are 'shambles' and 'crisis'.

    NHS 'in deep crisis', says doctors' leader

    NHS crisis - BBC News

    U.K.'s public health service is in crisis, threatening an institution at the center of British culture


    Nobody is saying that our own system doesn't have problems but we are so far ahead of NI it is 'jaw dropping' for medical professionals to hear about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Our costs are so far ahead you mean, yet we have longer waiting lists. Yes, that is jaw dropping.

    In 2022 (the last year for which I can find a figure) , Ireland's public health expenditure was nearly $4,700 per capita, which is above the OECD average public health expenditure of $3,900 per capita. In addition, many of us pay vhi of thousands a year, and six in 10 of us have to pay to see a doctot., pay €100 in a+e etc.

    Good luck in persuading people in NHI that they would not only have to pay higher taxes to a health service in a U.I., but also private health insurance, and also doctors fees, a+e fees etc. And all to be on longer waiting lists than in nhs.

    . Our waiting lists are truly "jaw dropping". Quote:

    "Record 911,500 people on some form of public hospital waiting list; the highest it has ever been; surpassing previous record of 910,00 set in August 2022"

    But in the nirvana of a U.I. you think it'll all be grand.

    How is the national childrens hospital coming on? Are we showing the world we are great at planning again? It is already by far the most expensive hospital in the world per bed and not even finished yet. When it will be finished there will be no easy way of driving to it / parking a car / no great public transport nearby etc. What a fiasco.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nobody is talking about 'nirvana'.

    What is increasingly talked about (and most recently by medical professionals) is the possibility of a better way in which outcomes can be better for all.


    Keep ignoring what is happening around you, doesn't bother me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    The public is only too well what is happeneng around us here in the Republic : high taxes to pay for our HSE which is not functioning very well (911,500 people on waiting lists), having to pay high doctors charges, high a&e fees, high VHI fees which are ever increasing etc. Good luck in trying to persuade the people of N.I. to pay all those charges.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You'll continue codding yourself that a nirvana is being proposed.
    That's where Unionism and folk like yourself will strategically fail yet again. You think running down the south is all that is required.
    Carry on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Your idea of a U.I. where people from the 6 counties would have access to a health service, if, like here, they paid higher taxes ( higher vat, higher vrt etc ) to pay for our HSE which is not functioning very well (latest figures 911,500 people on waiting lists), having to pay high doctors charges, high a&e fees, increasingly high VHI fees etc sounds just like nirvana until you can at least come up with proposals to finance it.

    How is the national childrens hospital coming on? Are we showing the world we are great at planning again?  If we cannot plan properly for a 26, even with unsustainable corporation taxes rolling in, what chance would we have of running a 32 when the well runs dry?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Not me looking at the south and wondering how 'we' can have some of that. That is actual medical professionals doing that on their main broadcaster, the BBC.
    The 'penny is dropping' as I said and you can wonder away all you want.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    There are over 1.3 million people working in the NHS. Because one or two or them - not one or two per cent, one or two people - may be Republicans and want a U.I.and may say so on the BBC, you really think that is statistically significant? God, you are really clutching at straws.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That is just your opinion.

    Fact is, if he was 'Republican' there'd have been a chorus calling him out…what have we heard? Nothing.

    Penny is dropping.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    What planet are you from? People in the NHS are quite entitled to have republican or unionist sympathies, without getting called out on it. Parity of esteem. In the UK people's political and indeed beliefs are their own business. You will find a huge diversity of people of all beliefs work for the NHS without major problems. It is not like down here where HH got called out for being a protestant / coming from a protestant background, and got "awful sectarian abuse" (as it was termed) as a result.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    😁😁

    So a 'republican' singing the praises of the southern health service on BBC NI would not get called out?

    Did somebody ask 'what planet are you from'? 😁😁
    Apparently, according to the chief belligerent Unionist, the 'pan nationalist front' has infiltrated everything from the Beeb to the Judiciary.
    Pay attention to the real world Francis!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Have'nt a clue what you are on about. There are over 1.3 million people in the HSE. Why are you placing special significance to the political opinions of just one of those people, even if he spoke / was interviewed on the BBC. The BBC can interview any of the 1.3 million?

    NB I have'nt a clue what interview you are talking about, but why would anyone pay much attention to the political opinions of some doctor? He is as entitled to his political opinions as anyone else is to theirs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    😁😁

    The 'interview' on the BBC which started this discussion?

    It was a professional opinion not a 'political' one.

    You reveal your spots again, anyone who wants a better life is expressing a political preference for your nightmare and the Shinners under your bed.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    We all want a better life. He wants a united Ireland, which he is quite entitled to aspire to. You may call an aspiration for a united Ireland a professional opinion, but he was not an economist : nor had he the faintest idea of how the "better Ireland" would be paid for, who would pay for the health care in N.I., if many people there would feel they would have to pay for it on the double like here ( by paying taxes as well as huge VHI premiums etc.).

    I have nothing against some doctor wanting a U.I. I am not calling him out on it. It is you who is highlighting him.

    As I said, you will find a huge diversity of people of all beliefs work for the NHS without major problems. It is not like down here where HH got called out for being a protestant / coming from a protestant background, and got "awful sectarian abuse" (as it was termed) as a result.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Maybe if you informed yourself you would have some credibility.
    He never mentioned a 'united Ireland'.

    Go do your due diligence and properly consume what is posted here.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    He was arguing for a united Ireland. That was the point of your post. It is you that needs to have some credibility and consistency. The points I made below still stand:

    "He wants a united Ireland, which he is quite entitled to aspire to. You may call an aspiration for a united Ireland a professional opinion, but he was not an economist : nor had he the faintest idea of how the "better Ireland" would be paid for, who would pay for the health care in N.I., if many people there would feel they would have to pay for it on the double like here ( by paying taxes as well as huge VHI premiums etc.).

    I have nothing against some doctor wanting a U.I. I am not calling him out on it. It is you who is highlighting him.

    As I said, you will find a huge diversity of people of all beliefs work for the NHS without major problems. It is not like down here where HH got called out for being a protestant / coming from a protestant background, and got "awful sectarian abuse" (as it was termed) as a result."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    Its well known that what sort of health system will exist in a UI will be a major influencer in any vote. This is one area where the Irish Government will need to be crystal clear before any referendum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    He was arguing for a united Ireland. That was the point of your post. It is you that needs to have some credibility and consistency. The points I made below still stand:

    "He wants a united Ireland, which he is quite entitled to aspire to. 

    You can't just bullshit your way out of it.
    He NEVER mentioned a 'United Ireland' he ACTUALLY says his point is not related to the constitutional issue.

    You are completely winging it here because the folk under your bed have you destroyed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    It is quite obvious the doctor from Dublin wants a united Ireland. He is quite entitled to have that viewpoint. Many people have that viewpoint. I am not criticizing him for having that viewpoint, or for thinking that an all-Ireland health service in a U.I. could be great. He is quite entitled to his opinions.

    As I said,

    I have nothing against some doctor wanting a U.I. I am not calling him out on it. It is you who is highlighting him.

    As I said, you will find a huge diversity of people of all beliefs work for the NHS without major problems. It is not like down here where HH got called out for being a protestant / coming from a protestant background, and got "awful sectarian abuse" (as it was termed) as a result."

    What would be great is if he could back up his fantasy wishes with figures, tell us how it will be funded, would people in N.I. who currently get free healthcare under NHS have to pay to see a doctor in a U.I. like six in ten adults here have to now, what about €100 a&e fees, would many of them feel they would have to have VHI or private health insurance like the situation here etc.

    The bearded ex leader of the political party you follow went to the USA to have medical surgery carried out there. Most Irish people do not have wealthy admirers in the States to help out and could not afford such procedurers themselves. Private Medical surgery can be very expensive in the USA, in case you do not know. So health care is a concern of many, if not most or all people.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yes. And the significant change is that the naysayers no longer have the crutch of 'the NHS is better' because as the data shows, outcomes here are much better and NI health professionals are having 'jaw dropping' moments when they discover and understand this.
    That is not to say that the system here is without flaws, of course it has.

    I think what people will find attractive is the possibility to correct fundamentals flaws as a new system, streamlined to cater for the whole island (pragmatic and efficient) is built for a UI.

    What's not to like?



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