Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

absolutely nuts that Gus McCarthy gets picked over someone like Tom Stewart or whoever is 1st choice at Connacht and Munster at the time. I'm not even trying to debate who is better. I just think it's bad for Irish rugby. The message to Gus Mccarthy should be if you want to play for Ireland you need to be playing week in week out for your province. This should also be the message for everyone in Ireland. without to much thinking Ditto the Connacht log jam at scrum Half or maybe even Ulster centres. (I just want to be sure I am not being perceived as anti Leinster) It will improve the players and it will improve the national team. It will also improve the provinces and make the interpros more of a probables vs possibles each time. It's a no brainer.

He is being ironic.

We really need to stop with the ‘cohesion’ or ‘familiar with the system’ **ite

No one ever, ever argues that we should pick players for cohesion and systems. It is only ever thrown out there - as in this case - to have a dig at the Ireland coaches and accuse them of Leinster bias, but people somehow think this is a clever way of doing it.

Tiresome would be the kindest description of it.

Hold on. It was used by the coaches to justify selections - particularly during the Lancaster days. Less said by it now.

Not really, no. Certainly not in the intent with which it gets claimed here.

The current complaint is about Gus McCarthy over Tom Stewart so let's look at them as an example.

Gus McCarthy made his Leinster debut in April 2024 and his first start in September 2024. He was playing for Emerging Ireland in October 2024 and made his test debut the following month. He had a few months and a handful of matches as a senior Leinster player - and only under the Nienaber regime - before leapfrogging Stewart for Ireland (as well as McKee and Barron at Leinster). What level of cohesion and familiarity could he possibly have achieved in such a short period?

Tom Stewart played for Emerging Ireland in September 2022, called up to senior squad for the 2023 Six Nations and pre-RWC training, made his debut in the warm-ups and named again in the 2024 6N squad. Then he was supplanted by McCarthy, two years after his introduction to the Ireland set-up.

The usual explanation we get is that Farrell just robbed Lancaster's playbook, but if McCarthy never played under Lancaster, how much does that apply here?

Any reasonable observer would say that the guy with the two year head-start in the Ireland environment would be more familiar and cohesive. So no, I don't think there's a difference here.

Maybe they just picked the player they thought was better.

Tom Stewart was injured anyway at the time when the November 2024 squad was selected. He didn't play for Ulster last season until late November.

Gus wasn't even selected ahead of him, Gus was fast-tracked into the squad because at the time the squad was announced we had what several news headlines described as an "injury crisis" at hooker.

You'll note that "the current complaint" isn't my current complaint tho, so lets make that distinction at the outset

I didn't say it was, so distinction not required. It was the complaint being discussed in the thread before you chimed in.

The broader points are:

You've accused me of

That's not the broader point at all, that's your beef with me. I doubt the wider board wants another episode of that particular saga.

where does "a career of mediocrity" sit

Again, completely unrelated to this topic and only airing out your grievances with me. If you believe that there are no mediocre players in Ireland, that's fine.

ok fair enough. but, my point is that if we want the national team to improve we need our best players playing regularly in the most competitive games they can find. Not making the leinster 23 for europe should preclude you from selection for Ireland in my opinion.

We should pick the best players available, and avoid setting any other selection criteria on it.

Of the current Ireland squad - the only players who arguably aren't in the Leinster 23 for Europe are Paddy McCarthy / Jack Boyle (one of them obviously will be this season), Gus McCarthy, and maybe Tom Clarkson.

None of those players were problematic for Ireland this November - Paddy McCarthy was one of the few bright spots of the series, Gus McCarthy did well in his cameo v Japan, Jack Boyle didn't feature at all and Clarkson was pretty good both times he featured.

The LHPs are where they are because there are no real viable alternatives to them. There's not much really between Boyle and Milne, but Milne equally doesn't have a lot of European experience. Denis Buckley has played 40+ games in Europe, but the notion he should be in the Ireland squad ahead of these guys is nonsense.

i am not saying denis buckley should be in the squad. I am saying another prop, like boyle, should be getting games in Europe in his place. I would have thought having as many of our top props as possible playing highest level would be axiomatic? Honestly can't see why we would debate this. Kiwis/Saffas wouldn't let players do it

whilst at the same time briadly being 2nd & prob 3rd choice for their club when it comes to CC knockout games…

This might upset some people but… playing CC knockout games is exactly why squad players might want to stay at Leinster rather than be first choice elsewhere.

(Now, that might be about to change this season, if things continue as they have been going…)

I think Leinster need to concentrate on the URC BEFORE thinking about competing in the Champions Cup.