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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 496 ✭✭Piskin


    Porter simply cannot hack it at this level, he is a liability.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,236 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Porter is a stunning indictment of the coaching of the Leinster and Irish team. He is fundamentally incapable of scrummaging legally, even when he knows he is walking the razor's edge with a ref. Every prop tries to cheat but most can pack down squarely when they're forced to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,294 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Complete this sentence:

    Porter cannot scrum. We should pick….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,236 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭Bart97


    The issue is this mediocrity is now just spreading to other area’s of our game.


    The ruck: I mean, we are less than 10 minutes into the game where we go into a ruck with only 1 player securing the ball and VDF just standing there and watching Wiese turn the ball over. It just set the tone that we had done f all at fixing our ruck issues.


    The scrum: Looking at the pack today, you’ve got a pan approximately 923 kg…how tf is your scrum so poor? Against Australia as well, it’s like we always just about win our own ball and then get annihilated on the opposition ball…and that’s considered acceptable. The issue for me is there seems to be no effort to even try and be legal…the second SA went forward the likes of Porter were like “Yeah I’m done” and concedes the pen, same with Bealham who just flopped to the ground ever single time it was an SA put in.

    The lineout/maul: To give them their dues, the lineout issues have been largely resolved…the issue remains the maul. The turning point try today right in half time came from Beirne not listening to the ref and moving away from the maul…this was an issue against Australia as well which contributes to Australia getting back into the game.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭Bart97


    The problem with him, and it sums up the standards of the Irish coaching, is he’s just lazy.


    Before we scrummed illegally but at least then he would, from time to time, try to scrum legally or would make a huge effort to hide it. Nowadays he just concedes the penalty and just goes on without a care in the world, and sadly this sloppiness seems to be common team across the board probably contributed by the drop of standards from the coaches.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,294 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    McCarthy came on tonight. How did he do?

    Boyle is not as good as McCarthy, Milne is even worse. It’s not logical to suggest these guys as solutions.

    This utter conviction that all our problems can be fixed by changing the personnel with inferior players is something I just don’t get.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,236 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    He was better than Porter. The idea that Porter's completely inability to do the most fundamental aspect of his position, is something that should be acceptable, is ridiculous. Wingers get dropped for missing tackles or not finding work, but Porter gets rewarded for giving away game losing penalties as a matter of course.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭Bart97


    The issue isn’t the players, it’s the quality of coaching. It doesn’t matter who comes in, the fact is areas such as scrum/lineout are areas the coaches clearly don’t focus on which is why we get such a bare minimum scrum/LO on match day and then when you come up against a side where it’s their bread and butter you get today’s rabble.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,018 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Porter's been used up by Farrell, forced into 70 minute shifts, especially during the Cian Healy cap gobbling world tour. He looks to have lost weight.

    My favourite Irish player has been used up for every ounce he could give and now he's facing the age old dilemma, you're only as good as your last game.

    He needs to get himself right. He needs a year off…. paid. Go back to the gym, gain some weight, take it easy and come back stronger.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    I'm personally starting to have reservations about Andy Farrell.

    Happy to be proven wrong but, while the players deserve all the criticism they get for that performance, it is clear the coaching regime has completely lost it's way.

    They need to have serious look at themselves and the personnel in the team, and make them all work for their jersey's again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭Bart97


    I am too, this reminds me a lot of 2019 where the coaching got very stale and as a result so many aspects of our game where so mediocre, not quite as bad now but there are too many players playing below a 7/10 consistently…that suggests the issues are deeper than the players and it reminds ALOT of what we experienced in 2019.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 26,591 ✭✭✭✭phog


    The match thread can wait until tomorrow, not really in the mood to read through it just now but we were piss poor tonight, we can laude our defense but the Boks took huge pressure off us by using up so much time with scrums. They laid down a marker tonight. Our discipline is gone to pot, we gave away some brain dead penalties tonight.

    We bookended the AIs with losses, bad losses. We need something or someone to freshen the team up because to me, we're regressing since the RWC. When the stadium announcer has to play Sweet Caroline to get the crowd going during a home match v SA you know there's something wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    The music is the IRFU's attempt to try and bring some atmosphere to a completely soulless experience full of corporates and influencers.

    Whoever's genius idea that was should be sacked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭cheese sandwich


    The atmosphere was pretty good tonight. There was no need to play Sweet Caroline but the IRFU seem terrified that any lull in play might result in swarms of punters heading to the bar or maybe starting a Mexican wave or something.

    To be honest Barry Murphy doing a maudlin version of Zombie before kick off was worse. Particularly because the arsehole saffers have appropriated the song for themselves with their “Rassie, Rassie” chant so it wasn’t even inspiring from an Irish point of view



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    Unfortunately the narrative for the match has already been set. "Heroic", "courageous", "determined", "pride", none of these words should be used to defend this evening's performance. Our set piece has been a massive, massive issue since the 2023 RWC and it looks no better now than it did then when Porter was getting blown off the field in the Qtr final. Yet Farrell is talking about how proud he is in the post match interview and the boys on the commentary in RTE were praising the way we finished the game.

    It's complete and utter nonsense. This team seems incapable of honest reflection. You had Sheehan saying this week that the criticisms of the lineout post New Zealand and Japan were over the top. Really Dan, a misfiring lineout that has been all over the place for three seasons shouldn't be the subject of concern? Likewise Farrell claiming that legitimate concerns around Prendergast's defence were leading questions. Rubbish. South Africa's second try tonight came from Prendergast going from inside to outside on defence and leaving Gibson Park to cover his spot, despite the fact that there was already an Irish defender outside Prendergast marking the sole Bok on the wing.

    The very worst thing that could happen in the aftermath of this game is for people to meekly accept any guff relating to Irish "heroics". Yeah the goal line defence from 60 to 65 minutes was nice, it's just a pity it was completely and utterly meaningless in the wider context of the game because our set piece, attacking play and discipline were all shite. O'Connell needs to go, Fogarty needs to go, Goodman needs to go and Farrell needs to have a serious rethink with regards to our gameplan and our selection policy. We do not have a set piece nor do we have a monster pack so an off the ball approach is, quite frankly, moronic and there are a number of players in that side well past their sell by date. Those should be the talking points post match, not some rose tinted, misty eyed eulogising of a failed performance based on us managing to hold out South Africa for what amounts to a fraction of the overall duration of the match.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    Porter has been one of the most penalised players in Europe for the last two seasons yet time and time again you will have supporters telling you it's down to incorrect interpretations by officials or, even more bizarrely, a grand conspiracy concocted by crooked referees. He cannot scrummage squarely. This should have been addressed after we lost the quarter final in '23 but as is always the case we buried our heads in the sand. I distinctly remember reading a quote from Sexton which proclaimed "We lost but we won".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,539 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I'm not as high on Cian Prendergast's performance as others appear to be. He dropped a regulation restart after we scored a penalty early in the second half and allowed South Africa easy access into our 22. They scored a try soon after. He dropped another restart in that half as well. Two massive momentum changers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,539 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    We fronted up on goal line defence and should be proud of that. But the game was littered with coach killers that shouldn't be forgotten. I've mentioned the Cian Prendergast knock ons already. That Ryan clear out was unforgivable especially when we were so close to the Boks try line. And the Crowley slap down was thunderingly thick when we were already down to 13 men. Just don't compete and stay on the pitch. He let everyone down there, as did the aforementioned other players.

    I'm sure there a dozen more that I've forgotten about.

    Post edited by Clegg on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake




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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    and make them all work for their jersey's again.

    There were untold flaws in the performance today, but I do not think this was one of them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,539 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    There are some positives to that series. Baird has firmly established himself as the leading blindside in Ireland. His close in carrying and counter jumping has been a particularly strength.

    Paddy McCarthy has shown he can be relied upon in test matches. Was great against Australia. Had a bad time in the scrum against South Africa but just about every prop struggles against them. Looked powerful in the loose.

    TOB is a test standard wing even if I think we didn't see the best of him in a line running sense this autumn. He's an excellent striker runner and would like to see him used more.

    Hansen is our Keenan back up if the latter ever gets injured again. And Cian Prendergast, even with those two sloppy restart drops, has shown he can be an effective sub at the very least and front up physically.

    Post edited by Clegg on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,539 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Negatives are the set piece. Scrum folded against the Boks to an extent I didn't think was possible. In previous games against them we'd lose the battle, but not by much. Yesterday's fixture was utter domination. I'm not sure how we improve that either. The props selected are the best we have.

    Lineout has been a shambles all series apart from the Australia game. POC needs to either improve his messaging or leave.

    Some established players have clearly not hit their best form. Porter, Sheehan, Beirne, Ryan and Conan have all been well below peak performance. All of them played significant roles for the Lions so it could be a hangover from that. Does us no good though.

    Centres is an area of concern. Aki, Henshaw and Ringrose never got going in attack. Only McCloskey looked capable of making the gainline and beyond.

    We still haven't answered the 10 question either. Prendergast's performance against Oz was the best of either flyhalf, but there are enough doubts over his defence that he can't have nailed the position down. Crowley came into the November window as the first choice 10, but struggled against New Zealand and was just ok against Japan. Lost his spot to Prendergast again and hasn't done enough to reclaim it. South Africa game is a wash for both. Forwards were so comprehensively mangled that neither 10 had a chance to impose their game.

    Post edited by Clegg on


  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,276 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Both Frank's brother and after that who cares.

    .....

    ...

    Ffs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,539 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    We definitely missed the extra bit of physicality that Joe McCarthy brings to the side. As soon as he's fit he slots back into the row alongside Beirne. Rugby has always been a physical game, but it seems like the 'meta' has tilted towards even more big hits and scrums, especially with the high kicking game to force knocks ons being en vogue.

    It's a shame Edogbo was unavailable this series. We need another power second row. Probably wouldn't have played against the Boks but we could have seen what he's capable of against Japan at least.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 26,591 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Crowley was stupid to try that but how many times have we seen players get away with it or just concede a penalty.

    I'm sure you also saw and would give credit to Crowley when he held them up over the line, a chase back when Lowe's kick was blocked down and how he forced a knock on to save a certain try. His break from the try line after scooping up the ball was brilliant.

    There are a few players one could sh1t on after tonight's game, Crowley really isn't one of them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭riddles


    The gig was up for Farrell at the end of the last world cup. At least he should have over hauled the coaching staff. That said hard to understand Ryans thinking or lack of. The South African non yellow as well was another joke. Ireland have tied with Fiji with 5 yellows in one game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Eh Crowley, with his team down 2 men, and with the ref whistling us off the park, decides to cynically play the ball whilst off his feet at the bottom of a ruck which cost SA an attacking opportunity where they had numbers. So the YC was justified

    It led to field position for the SA in our 22 from which they scored and we had a other man binned. So yeah I think there is some justifiable criticism of Crowley that is fully warranted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 891 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    It won’t happen until after the next World Cup, but it would be great for the IRFU to make a play to get McNamara, Flannery and Jones into the Irish setup. In general Farrell has been brilliant for Ireland, but things look like they have naturally gone stale. An Irish head coach would be nice if someone is up to it tbh. Not sure if a Mark McCall would fit the bill but think changes are needed in the coaching team more than anything.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭Bart97


    Simple, get a proper scrum coach in. That standard yesterday is not good enough for test rugby.



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