Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

It's literally just the same crap we've seen what? 3-4 times this year already? Russia putting forward a "peace plan" that no country with any will to live would accept.

These stupid "negotiations" are not a path to peace but a tool of war. A cynical effort to try and forge daylight between the US weapons and Ukraine. Or to try get the US to drop sanctions that they oh so dearly don't care about, but always ask to be dropped first and foremost.

The situation in Russia must be becoming increasingly desperate.

Both states are Eastern Christian, but there is a key difference..

The role of the Church is pivotal in state affairs in a way not comparable to western culture. Historically church leadership has been hand in glove with military and state affairs.

Catholicism doesn't have an equivalent comparison.

When I was in Ukraine in 2016 & 17 people, even in official roles might have used Russian( I had to ask translator repeatedly as to what language was spoken). The odd nationalist minded person might have insisted on Ukrainian but it was rare.

February 23, changed all that.

Russia has a long history of Russification of people it is trying to conquer. This is the same thing.

TLDR you are talking sh1te

More details on the key personalities being tied back to this corruption scandal. It appears it goes as far as the prime minister and another businessmen who is a close personal associate of Zelensky himself (who took over his all commercial interests when VZ took up the presidency)

https://kyivindependent.com/who-is-andriy-yermak-and-can-ukraines-new-corruption-scandal-finally-sink-him/

This has the risk to further dampen the political will by European powers to keep backing Ukraine financially or militarily. It's just so high-profile. Either Zelensky has no real control or knowledge over the operations of his government or he did know and tried to bury it (this reopens the question of why there was a move to neuter the national Anti-Corruption agency earlier this year)

Really wouldn't want to be Zelensky these days. Frontline is looking ropey and now his government / inner circle are in total chaos.

Just on the Russian orthodox church like it is some benign actor, it is very much part of the rise in Russian nationalism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Cathedral_of_the_Russian_Armed_Forces

"The church, and the imagery within it, have been linked to the 'Russkiy mir' or 'Russian world' theology which some Orthodox Christian Churches outside Russia have described as a heresy.

[16]

 This ideology has been described in the 

Financial Times

 as "Putin’s creation of an ideology that fuses respect for Russia’s Tsarist, Orthodox past with reverence for the Soviet defeat of fascism in the Second World War. This is epitomised in the Main Cathedral of the Russian Armed Forces, 40 miles west of Moscow, opened in 2020."

[17]

 During the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the church has come to be seen as a symbol of Russian militarism, with Russian operations in Ukraine being described as "holy" by Russian authorities.

[18]"

Just like any old church 🤔

https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/pulpit-propaganda-machine-tracing-russian-orthodox-churchs-role-putins-war

Well worth a read if you think given the Russian orthodox church official status within Ukraine is some harmless notion or idea.

Does the US not understand that the aggressor never wants a ceasefire, only a surrender? Why would you want a ceasefire when you are invading another country? Is this simple fact lost on the Americans?

Plan is already dead on arrival, the Ukrainians have already said aren't interested in even discussing it.

Don't understand why everyone gets themselves in a tizzy every time a new "deal" is announced. Neither side are anywhere close to even considering what the other side wants.

Even Stalin didn't crush the church, he had a go early on but realised their usefulness in driving patriotic vigour during WW2.

It was always kept under control.

The arrival of Putin was good news for them. For Putin having the church in your pocket is essential if you want to keep a lid on a population you are about to fcuk over.

Modern russian reads like medieval Europe in ways.

Communism rightly set it back between purges of the political class, military, intelligentsia etc followed by stagnation and corruption left it on its knees in 89 only to see the rise of gangsters taking over it's natural resources.

Putin or something similar was the inevitable outcome

This peace plan is an absolute travesty. Basically a surrender plan. Nobody could possibly think the Russians don't have something on Trump.

Or actually maybe they don't and this just the kind of world he believes in, where brutality triumphs over civilisation.

What an absolute c"unt and that applies to all Americans who voted for him too. Because without US support the Russians can't even propose this crap.

However in light of the new borders Mexico has indicated that it demands that the original Spanish Land Grants are observed as these are the earliest documented territorial divisions in the north American continent and also recognition of the fact that it achieved independence from Spain prior to the take over of its territory by its northern aggressive neighbor. </s>

P.S. Spain wants Florida back but the rest of the world can't understand why......

On the so called peace plan, if the US tries to impose something that Ukraine and European leaders see as bad for Europes security, I think recent attempts suggest that will fail.

Reports Ukraine was handed the proposal by the US and Russia. Echoes of Munich and Czechoslovakia. Reports it resembles Putin's maximalist demands from 2022.

25 civilians were killed in Russian bombing in Ternopil in recent days. This is in western Ukraine. 46 year old mother lost her 20 year old son.

This tells us all we need to know.

However, if Europe is not on board, it will fail to impose this. Europe is no hurry to return to Merkels failed Russia policy.

Only because Russia can not be trusted. They have broken every agreement in this entire conflict, so why should Ukraine trust them ? They themselves say they don't want concessions apart from Ukraine's unconditional surrender, you can't talk with people like that. I know it might be hard for you to understand but let's put it this way:

If the British army were bombing Ireland day in day out during The Troubles, deliberately targeting hospitals/schools/shopping malls/… and then tell you 'Hey, just give up': Would you go 'Ah sure lads, we can't win this anyway, good show' ?

You harp on about Ukraine being corrupt but not a single word on how Putin is basically running a mafia state with himself at the top, murdering political opponents without any consequences.

Also, you can stop replying to me because I'll stop entertaining your drivel, I despise people like you who hide behind 'Oh I just want peace :(' when in reality you want Russia to win but are too much of a coward to openly admit it.

All you want is Ukrainian capitulation with no concessions from Russia, under the guise of 'They can't win anyway'.

Mod Edit: Warned for personal abuse

no they shouldn’t. They’ve fled a war for a variety of reasons. If we feel so strongly that Ukraine’s defence needs more “military aged males” we should balls up and send our own. We have a military. While we hide behind “neutral” we’ve no right to demand others fight our wars of interest for us. Ditto for every other European nation.