Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 02/09/25*

assylum seekers who genuinely do bend the rules get found out and dealt with, it takes time due to resources certainly but it does happen.
you need to come to terms with the reality that it's not illegal to be a refugee and assylum seeker.

AFAIK, we don't control the numbers of UKR people coming here.

It is demand-led.

They choose Ireland over France.

We control the number of work visas and student visas, yes, but not the number of UKR people to BOTP.

I think that's correct?

AFAIK, as many UKR as like can come here, there are no limits.

What we control are the accomm / benefits that we provide.

Any word on a re immigration plan for some of the Syrians we so generously gave refuge to from the Assad regime?

As for countries like the UK, Denmark and Germany tightening immigration and asylum policy. Until Europe starts mass deportations back to Africa and the middle East it's just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

None of them will return home, they'll just move to the next best European country.

The issue is the likes of the Puska family.

Arrive here years ago, get a low paid job so they can put their names on the social housing list. Get a social house and then go on disability and social welfare.

It’s so easy to play the system in this country.

The likes of them are here forever and are a drain on our finances

The idea we should just churn out houses to everyone who says they need one and have their name down on the social housing list is bonkers and utterly unsustainable.

The people coming to Ireland who have paid thousands to criminal gangs to get here are not remotely the most deserving. They are characterised by a combination of their being relatively well to afford this and having a greater willingness to break laws, engage in deception etc along the way. The true misfortunates are stuck in some camp somewhere, they wonder where they will get their next meal, not how they will save €20,000 to pay criminals. The money spent on all these investigations and deportations etc would help 10 times are many if it was used to fund medical care, schools etc in these camps. Every effort should be made to stop queue jumpers, and our compassionate obligations should take the form of increased aid.

Some interesting ideas being floated by the UK home secretary

If the UK enacts these measures and Ireland stands still we will be hammered with arrivals

I have always felt the Ukrainians are in a different situation from most asylum seekers because nowhere in Ukraine is safe from Russian bombs. Its not the same as someone from Nigeria. I have heard complaints from people about the numbers here from Ukraine, but I don't agree with it - except that I think the rest of Europe should be sharing the burden. The class background of many of these people would be a cross section. If Dublin was flattened by aerial bombardment, it would affect all classes regardless of income and employment status.

However I do think that it was a mistake to pay full welfare rates for 2 years. We need the rest of Europe to share the burden. France has only accepted 94000, which is lower than the numbers who have at some point been in Ireland.

Personally I think Ukrainians integrate well as citizens of another European democracy with a very similar history of domination by larger neighbours, suppression of the Ukrainian language, as Ireland.

If we were invaded we would also flee to the four corners of the earth. Thats a genuine refugee. What is not a genuine refugee are most of those applying for asylum.

The term "asylum seeker" should be separated from the term "refugee" since the purpose of the asylum process is to ascertain if they are genuine refugees or not. Thats one of the reasons I disagree with lumping Ukrainians into the asylum system. Doing so risks associating genuine Ukrainian refugees with bogus ones from other countries in the public mind.

I agree on the freebies but not only letting in people experiencing an invasion.

The historical parallels between Ukrainian and Irish history are obvious, including attempted partition.

Some of the same people in SF who have railed against the partition of Ireland have argued for the partition of Ukraine over the years.

The Ukrainians have shown in this war how innovative and knowledgable they are particularly in drone warfare. Those skills could be very useful to the Irish economy and improving our miniscule defence capability in the future.

We need to rediscover some idealism and the idea that there is something virtuous in fighting for something bigger than yourself. US style conservatism is about selfish individualism and an "I'm alright jack" approach.

At the same time, I think that overall on asylum, we need to get much tougher. Im arguing for a selective approach. People who are not fleeing war or persecution should be turned back at the airport.

And for legal migration, people from stable, democratic societies should be favoured. I tend to believe that when a country is at peace militarily, longterm political trends to some extent reflect what the wider society wants. And that does not reflect well on Somalia, given Al Shabab, warlord control of the regions. The only stable part of Somalia is Somaliland which is de-facto independent.

We should avoid importing the destabilising ideologies from the unstable parts of the world. We are increasingly being dragged into the politics of those countries as well, such as Egypt a few years ago in a dispute over a prisoner.

I agree but I would add that I think the Russian assets should be used to compensate them for their lost property, lost livelihoods and loss of family members. Belgium is the main obstacle to this at the moment.

Well 90% of the ones here are old people or were under 16 when they arrived. However as a nation they are good with technology because the USSR's tech sector was largely based in the country. But some of the teenagers that arrived are now adults.

One thing we must not do is send people back to their deaths just to save money. Thats what happened to the Jews on the St.Louis who were turned around off the US coast and sent back to Europe and ultimately the gas chambers.

However most asylum seekers are not fleeing for their lives and should be deported in my opinion.