Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

I don't know why I see them, but I've been seeing posts on housing/rent Facebook pages for people looking for accommodation etc lately… and I've seen a few posts from Ukranians and the comments under them can be fcuking horrendous!! Ireland really does have a cohort of absolute fcuking scummy detestable rodent tosspots amongst its ranks…

I cannot see that anything will come of this. Peskov has already there has been nothing new from the US since the Alaska talks and nobody - US, European or Ukrainian - has approached Russia with anything new. There simply cannot be a deal when neither the Ukrainians nor the Russians have been involved in the discussions. It's just more factional infighting in the Trump administration that will go nowhere.

The sad reality is the post 2013 Ukrainian political class - and Zelensky in particular - are ideologically incapable of making peace with the Russians. The Europeans are in roughly the same spot ideologically. And the US - though very, very slightly more realistic than the Ukrainians and Europeans - simply don't need to make any concessions. It is completely irrelevant to US national interests if Ukraine is totally destroyed. The Russians also don't need to make any concessions - they're winning.

In the absence of any possible negotiations, I remain convinced the most probable outcome is a 1945 style imposition of terms, except Zelensky and most of the 1940s historical re-enactment crowd will flee with the last of the money.

Kremlin propaganda coming so thick and fast that it can't even agree with itself now.

Fascinating to watch.

Also obligatory @Sand quote here for posterity:

I skimmed through it and didn't see anything interesting in it. Its just a series of assertions with no evidence.

'The sad reality is the post 2013 Ukrainian political class - and Zelensky in particular - are ideologically incapable of making peace with the Russians.'

Are you **** taking the piss here ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izium_mass_graves

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_war

'wHy dOnT tHeY wAnT pEaCe!'

You're disgusting.

HEY!!!!! They HAD TO rape those women, castrate those POWs, murder those infants and kidnap those children because Zelensky was so rude to them. Get your factz straight.

so does that justify Russia killing sleeping babies?

The sad reality is the post 2013 Ukrainian political class - and Zelensky in particular - are ideologically incapable of making peace with the Russians.

In 2013, Ukrainians looked to the EU and saw a higher standard of living, GDP and all the nice things one would typically associate with to west. They also looked to the east and saw a corrupt, autocratic kleptocracy hellhole where unpaved dirt roads, outside toilets and no running water was rife. They pondered the two and went with the obvious option.When this happened, they were actually in times of peace and conflict with russia was not something they would dream of.

However, russia didn't like that Ukraine went with the better option for them, so they invaded in 2014. That's when this "peace" you mention ended. This doesn't make the Ukrainian political class incapable of peace with russia; it makes the russian political class incapable of peace with Ukraine.

At least 25 confirmed killed in the latest Russian atrocity.

F*CK Putin and Russia and I hope Ukraine hits back hard.

So we agree the post 2013 Ukrainian ruling class are ideologically incapable of reaching a peace deal with the Russians.

Ukraine being hopelessly corrupt is nothing new though. The US and Europe already knew this. It has been totally corrupt ever since the 1990s. Prior to 2022, there are plenty of western media investigations and stories about the corruption in the country. Since Feb 2022, the Orwellian propaganda turn ( "We have always been at war with Oceania") has re-invented Ukraine as a shining beacon of democracy, prosperity and innovation upon a hill and completely forgot the pre-2022 analysis.

But you can still find stories from the before time where Zelensky himself was listed in the Pandora papers as using a series of murky off-shore accounts to hide money and buy property in cities like London. Zelensky came to power with the backing of one of the corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine (though he did later turn on him). Only a few weeks ago, Zelensky must have seen what was coming when he tried to muzzle these investigators though he failed to do so. The revelation that his personal circle are deeply involved in looting money to enrich themselves shouldn't surprise anyone, least of all the US or Europe. Also it wouldn't surprise me at all if a large percentage of the funds sent to Ukraine wind up back in the accounts of favoured politicians and corporations in the US and the west. Does anyone believe that Joe Biden's son was the best candidate for the board of directors on Burisma shortly after the US backed coup in 2014?

My speculation is that the actions of these anti-corruption watchdogs is intended by factions in the US to put pressure on Zelensky to carry out some policy for them, potentially to reduce the age of conscription to 18 or even younger. But it wont be to accept a peace deal.

Approx 45 minutes before you made this post, Russian drones killed 25 Ukranian civilians, including 3 children - with potentially more fatalities to be announced.

Yet you focus on Ukraine not being able to make peace with the Russians.

… are you actually serious?

But but but "international rules"??? @brickster69 @Sand … any word salad excuses for us on this and the latest missile attack on residential buildings? Are you going to engage with the thread or just troll everyone and hope to snare an unsuspecting new browser?

Imagine a discussion forum, in a country with proper freedom of speech laws and a free press, where despite all of the evidence presented some people go to the trouble of siding with the rapists and murders but can't bring themselves to actually engage on the said discussion forum. Sounds like someone with the sole intention of pushing disinformation.

Mod Edit: Warned for personal abuse

But what ever you do @Sand….don't blame Russia.

Fcuk off right now. This proposal is just another fancy surrender letter. No way Ukraine will agree to this sh1te

Militarily aged males should go home IF the Ukrainian government/army requires them. If women without children are needed in critical roles them too. There's not too many suggesting the children go back or their mother's.

No surprise to see Trump again pressuring Ukraine. Although he has less leverage because the US is now selling weapons instead of donating them. Some cheek the day after one of the worse civilian bombings by the Russians. It's almost like the Russians timed it for now to absolutely make sure Ukraine wouldn't agree now to make them look like they're against ending this.

I do think Zelensky would agree to a temporary ceasefire but if it were to be attempted you just know the Russians would use it as a chance to flood reinforcements into Pokrovsk and Kupyiansk. It's also the mud season now so it's not a good time for the Russians to attack or during the coming winter.