Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

i doubt it.

"Minister of State for Transport Seán Canney confirmed that funding is available for the project, and it will be included in the National Development Plan."

"The line is in situ; there is no planning required. It will go to tender, and procurement - there are no impediments."

replicate the successful approach to Foynes reinstatement works, which effectively avoid planning, and just get on with it. Costs also very low (low 100s of millions, not high 100s of millions, or billions).

You mean the successful approach to Foynes which the C&AG found to not have been in compliance with any of the necessary procedures, with costs multiples of what was originally estimated, works expected to be completing now but no sign of that actually happening and no indication of any customers for the line?

If by the successful approach to Foynes, you mean senior officials ignoring all requirements and waving it through without any critical evaluation or basic compliance checks then yes, Canney probably is hoping to replicate that approach.

Irish Rail received 65m of funding for phase 1 in December 2022, with total project cost estimated at 150m. Yes, this was above the 100m threshold. However in March 2023, the threshold for extra levels of government oversight and approval were increased to 200m. Clearly this increase was already in works.

They're now proposing to increase that limit to 500m. Clearly they're enabling companies like Irish Rail to get on with smaller projects like this, providing they fit into wider strategic plans. Removing unnecessary planning/legal delays, public consultation, political wrangling etc. is exactly what this country desperately needs.

with costs multiples of what was originally estimated

What are you referring to? Estimated cost in 2022 were 150m. Have they ballooned to 5 or 600m?

If you have something to show that the estimated cost in 2022 were €150m then you better give it to the C&AG's office as they certainly couldn't find that when they investigated the project.

The C&AG report said "The Foynes project had an initial projected cost of €42m" and "in July 2022 proposed that financial support be provided for the phase 1 works from the land transport expenditure programme (Programme B) of Vote 31 Transport". Then "The Department’s observations were based on revised project costs submitted by Iarnród Éireann in respect of phase 1, which had increased to €104 million following receipt of tenders (i.e. around 2.5 times the previous estimate). The Department pointed out that the project had not been subject to any detailed appraisal.". In Dec 2022, the Department had to provide an additional €64m to cover Phase 1, costs increased by a factor of 2.5 in six months before work actually started.

Even Donald Trump would be embarrassed by the blatant lying (which is easily disproved) in relation to the Foynes reopening.

The €64 was additional funding! It was provided directly from the Department because IÉ couldn't cover the costs of the project from Vote 31.

Use of IMMAC funding was retrospectively approved on an exceptional basis, you even highlighted that. The following paragraph shows that the Department was not happy with it's use as it was a blatant attempt to sidestep the rules and resulted in a horrendous overspend which had not been considered in any budgets. You can be sure that this will not be allowed to happen again for WRC.

Saying "Estimated costs are still less than the revised 200m limits for such projects" is an extreme contradiction. In the previous paragraph it is track maintenance and renewal! The €200m revised limit was a subsequent and unrelated change to government sign off requirements and has nothing to do with Foynes. It is however a perfect example of the desperate clutching at straws which people engage in to try justify the gross mishandling of the project.

You can be sure that WRC Phase 2 will not be allowed to follow the same process (i.e. complete disregard for the proscribed processes) and will be subject to significant oversight, including being classified as a major project (>€200m) from the start and all the red tape that comes with it.

The IMMAC was retrospectively revised to reflect the additional €64m in 2022. Annex IV – Annual Work Programme 2022 Table 1 (page 40) does not include anything for Foynes but Annex IV (2) – Revised Annual Work Programme 2022 (page 43) includes Foynes Freight Line €64m.

There was never an estimate of €104m. The C&AG only found an initial projected cost of €42m but nothing in compliance with the requirements. The Department pointed out that the project had not been subject to any detailed appraisal. The C&AG themselves wrote that following
receipt of tenders costs increased around 2.5 times the previous estimate. It has nothing to do with costs for everything were sky rocketing, they just didn't comply with the processes or gain the necessary approvals.

The Cork-Dublin Level Crossings has nothing to do with it. That requires planning approval which took an inordinate length of time. Foynes didn't require planning approval and still wouldn't have if they complied with the procedures.

The €64m wasn't in the original table but is in the revised version. The €64m was added by the Department in 2022 after IÉ went begging for the money for a project which they ignored all procedures on. The C&AG report states extra €64m on 6th Dec 2022 award of the contract awarded on 14th Dec 2022.

Of course it the IMMAC doesn't have €41m for Foynes in 2021, the lack of funding was only revealed in 2022. Another €31m is included in a table under the heading "A breakdown of the Capital Investment Programme" for 2024 (Capital Investment wasn't an item in previous years). This is obviously the horrendous overspend on the project.

How could costs increased by more than 50% post contract award? I'm not sure how that's possible given they couldn't really do additional works as that would have required planning permission. There was some messing about with a bridge to allow it to be jacked up later (in order to avoid having to apply for planning permission) but that wouldn't account for even half of the increase.

Anyway, Foynes is a perfect example of how not to deliver a project and will mean more scrutiny of any future reopening proposals.

The €64m is clearly stated as "Foynes Freight Line", there is no ambiguity that that was what it was for. The C&AG report also clearly states this. This is some serious misinformation campaign you are running!

It is a perfect example of how not to deliver a project. They didn't comply with the necessary procedures and didn't have funding approval at time of tender. After receiving tenders, they managed to wrangle the funding out of the Department "on an exceptional basis", despite "serious
concern about the process underpinning the Foynes project".

After award, costs increased by 50%. They still didn't have funding approval for Phase 2, which was necessary to obtain any value from the >€100m already thrown at Phase 1. The contract was awarded in Dec 22 with a 100 week programme but apparently isn't completed yet. Not sure what the status is on Phase 2 but it should take 18 months. That would suggest that the line can't open until 2027 despite IÉ saying it is anticipated that the route will open for freight services in 2025.

The only positive thing that can be said about the project is that it didn't have to go into the planning system (well actually it should have gone for planning to raise a bridge but anyway). Not needing planning permission just happened to be the case, it isn't some project management brilliance by the delivery team. Not needing planning won't apply to WRC as that will need station upgrades and at least one new bridge.

And while ignoring the government documents provided to you, you then claim Foynes is "probably a reason for current government proposal to increase the "major project" threshold" with no basis whatsoever. That is mindless speculation to back up your own preconceived ideas with nothing to support it.

I didn't say anything about it being additional funding on top of funding previously received for Foynes. The €64m was additional to the IMMAC. As I pointed out, it contains a revised Annex IV for 2022 with Foynes Freight Line 64m which was not in the original Annex IV.

That additional funding to the IMMAC was approved "on an exceptional basis" in Dec 2022 to allow the be contract awarded the following week. It was the initial funding, the project didn't have any funding allocation until then as it didn't follow the necessary procedures.

Unsurprisingly costs have spiralled since then. Another €31m is shown for 2024. Sisk are reporting it as a €151.5m project.

42km of rail line can be reinstated at an estimated cost of €3.6m per km

Lads, €3.6m per km wasn't the estimated cost, €1m per km was the estimated cost.

That Foynes didn't have to go through the planning process isn't some amazing piece of project delivery, the line happened to be in use later than other closed lines and they did the minimum amount of works (which limits the utility of the line). As I said, that isn't going to work for WRC Phase 2.

You are trying to compare things which aren't comparable (which should be blatantly obvious to anyone with a bit of sense). Cost is one side of the equation, benefit is the other and Luas Finglas and Metrolink are expected to return benefits well in excess of their costs (despite those costs being very high). There are currently no indication of any returns from Foynes and costs are considerably higher than were expected

Anyone claiming that the project was well managed should care about the difference between estimated and actual costs - it is generally used as a key metric when determining how a project was managed. The Foynes project was clearly terribly managed yet we have people here claiming it is a shining example of how to deliver a project. Trying to take the same approach with WRC just won't fly.