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Winter 2025/26 - General Discussion

1246784

Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,347 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    I will set it up in 3 weeks, last day of November.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 Derekon2021


    Thanks MT and looking forward to the annual winter forecast, your input is appreciated as ever

    D



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭Ros4Sam24


    https://x.com/raleighwx/status/1988331307689009273?s=46

    Ssw is gaining a lot of traction with 78% of ensembles meeting the criteria on ECMWF EPS as Late November comes into range. Run at a higher resolution than the EC46 runs I had been posting so very welcome news. Whether this constitutes to a ‘Major’ warming is yet to be seen. The last November Ssw was in 1968, so would be very rare for such to come off. December is looking interesting 🧐



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 27,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    Regarding some yrs where we had an early SSW , early Dec 87 , mid Dec 98 and late Dec 2001 - were poor winters so an early ssw might not have the desired effect we hope it will if it happens even if it is as early as late nov. But it will be interesting to see what happens......



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭Ros4Sam24


    It would be comical if we had blocking in place in December and then the Ssw scuppers things and we end up zonal



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    That would be just our bloody luck!

    I remember the first half of Dec 87 was chilly and there was even talk of a possible big cold spell from the east. The ssw started on the 7th. The big cold spell became a bust and the second half of the month was much milder. Wonder did the ssw scupper things that yr.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,643 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Yes , we'd better off if the zonal wind just continued to stayed weak( close to a reversal) in that case. It could help prolong any cold set up in place too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭mcriot29


    solar output way too high for any big freeze ssw only chance we have



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭Ros4Sam24




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    😲

    So, we'll have Snowdrifts for Christmas? yayyy

    thanks Ros4Sam24 😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭bazlers


    November 1962 was extremely mild... although every other November seems milder than average since 2010 ; )



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,463 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Where did you get this idea? November 1962 was cold, not exceptionally so but it was. Most of 1962 was colder than average in fact.

    Post edited by sryanbruen on

    Photography site - https://sryanbruenphoto.com/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭bazlers


    In Jamaica ; )



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭bazlers


    For some reason i thought Nov 62 started out very mild



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭mcriot29


    yes either super high output or super low can. Cause the jet to go south



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,463 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Well it wasn't. It was very average by modern standards before becoming cool with some early snowfalls in the UK in the third week, not sure about Ireland.

    Novembers that did start out very mild and had noteworthy cold spells or snaps later include 1996, 2005 and 2010. Up until 2025, 1996 was the warmest first third to November on record in the Central England region. It later produced a snow event for some mostly over the hills - very heavy rain on the east coast - at a similar timing to the 2024 event. 2005 had record-breaking mins early on in long fetched southerly winds and later produced a northerly blast on the 25th which gave some of the earliest widespread snowfalls in Ireland this century to date but accumulations weren't large and temporary. There was some freezing fog at times a few days prior too. 2010 goes without saying.

    Photography site - https://sryanbruenphoto.com/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,463 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Things are looking a little more interesting now. I haven't spoken about teleconnections much if any since the massive failure that was winter 2023-24 as that was the last straw which suggested to me that a lot of the things people look at no longer apply in a warming world. That may still be the case but today and it is towards the outer reaches of the model run, the GEFS this morning has begun to show a wave-2 pattern in the upper stratosphere later in November into December 2025. This could succeed possibly the earliest major sudden stratospheric warming on record in the final week of November. There have been only two major SSWs on record in the month of November back in 1958 and 1968.

    What these wavenumbers basically mean is they tell you how many anticyclones and troughs are within a full latitude circle. In the case of wave-2, this means there are two anticyclones (high pressure) and two troughs (low pressure) in the northern hemispheric circle. A wave-2 pattern is typically characterised by a split of the polar vortex which keeps cold air bubbled in the arctic circle from filtering down to the lower latitudes normally. A wave-1 pattern where there is one anticyclone and one trough is normally associated with a displacement of the polar vortex from its normal position. A wave-2 pattern is more conducive to blocked, cold setups in western Europe than the former. More often than not they do lead to such but not 100% of the time. It is said that just over 2/3 of general sudden stratospheric warmings lead to cold, blocked setups - this includes the wave-1 events. Then of course once we do get the blocking, there's no guarantee that it would be in a position favourable for western Europe. Greenland highs for instance in recent years have often been west based whereby they've been too far west over towards Canada allowing any undercutting low pressure systems to bring milder, wet conditions to Ireland.

    An early major SSW isn't necessarily a brilliant sign for cold, blocked setups because nocturnal cooling is at peak through mid-December to mid-January so unless there is a continued disturbance to the PV through favourable patterns, it is very likely that the PV aloft will rebound fairly swiftly. That does not mean it would correspond back to the tropospheric patterns as you can get disconnections. A safer bet would be to have a consistently weak vortex rather than one big knockout just to have it bounce back.

    image.png

    The one consistent red flag with modern winters that continues to be the case is sea surface temperatures are still above to well above average in our vicinity. There is a slight signature for a tripole in the North Atlantic of warm-cold-warm (which according to the UK Met Office has favoured negative North Atlantic Oscillation conditions historically) but it is not strong and therefore unlikely to be of much difference.

    Warmer seas can give beefier showers with more moisture available to draw from but if the airmass is not sufficiently cold in the first place, showers will primarily fall as cold rain.

    For this reason, it'd be foolish to expect a colder than average winter. In fact you'd expect a lot of mild conditions with cold airmasses moderated heavily. This does not discount sudden cold snaps that could provide surprises however.

    image.png

    We say the same basically every winter but the rollercoaster is active and here we go.

    Photography site - https://sryanbruenphoto.com/



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 1,916 Mod ✭✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (430ft asl)


    Winter has arrived on Ireland's highest mountain peak

    G51dBWaWkAE_fBf.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭Ros4Sam24


    The met office have their eyes peeled with favourable background signals for cold

    This from Petagna who works for the Met Office

    IMG_1142.jpeg

    Certainly good to see these guys noticing the potential that December holds



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,925 ✭✭✭Calibos


    Such a shame all the Meteorological indicators are for nought because I bought Winter tyres this year and Murphys Law beats all the laws of nature! [Sigh]



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 631 ✭✭✭Ros4Sam24


    My goodness, eye candy from the the Ec46 tonight

    IMG_1143.jpeg

    The PV will be on its knees as we enter December and likely for quite a while.

    Forgive me, for I do not remember 2010😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭davidsr20


    has mt done his winter predictions yet?



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭squonk


    Personal opinion here but I think looking at patterns from winter 47 or 63 are less useful now. We are in a different period with respect to global warming. Yes we were still lucky to get the exceptional events of 2009/10 and Emma in 2018 but even anecdotally the frosty morning is becoming a thing of rarity here on the west coast anyway. I have memories if plenty from my childhood and teenage years 35-45 years ago but not so much now. We can still get good setups for sure but we just need much more luck nowadays before it amounts to anything I feel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭mcriot29


    yes he’s said it’s going be cloudy with a chance of meatballs 😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭davidsr20


    good man



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 364 ✭✭ClimateObserver


    On the 14th of November he wrote in the Daily Forecast Thread:

    WINTER OUTLOOK _ I have taken a look at global patterns and some research data, and come to the conclusion that the winter of 2025-26 could be a relatively active one for Ireland and Britain, with some episodes of wintry cold and snow. There will also be intervals of milder conditions, and some dry periods in the mix. One or two severe storms are likely, as the jet stream is going to be raging across the sectors to the west (North America and west-central Atlantic). So the overall conclusion is that there will be a mixture of different types of weather during the winter, but perhaps a little more truly wintry episodes than has been typical of most recent winters. At the same time, there is probably little chance of a severe winter in general, but it may be rated in the category of moderately severe.

    On the face of it, a 2017-2018 style winter? Perhaps.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,347 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    A February 2009 repeat would do nicely, doesn't have to be a 2010/2018 scenario but I'll take it if it happens! In north Leinster we are desperate for anything at this stage! The snow drought since 2019 is probably worse now than it was in the early 2000s before the triple of cold winters 2009,2010 and 2011.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,730 ✭✭✭esposito


    I don’t remember anything good about 2011?

    I’d also take a Feb 2009 repeat, but for it to happen second half of December as well. Yes, twice. I am being greedy!



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,347 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    I could be wrong but I think the UK got a good bit of snow in 2011 but we missed out on it, but we did get some cold tho.



This discussion has been closed.
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