Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

Lapmo_Dancer · 12-11-2025 08:11PM

On the contrary. This particular flight, during an industrial dispute which doesn’t involve him/her, would be exactly the time for the Captain to keep things by the book and not get involved. If the non flying manager wanted the cabin crew to position in Business, he should have had that reflected on the loadsheet before departure and not expected the Captain to intervene in a dispute to which he/she was not party to.

lintdrummer · 12-11-2025 08:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123983691#Comment_123983691

Checking toilets and galleys for fire I'm guessing? There's a lot of electrical equipment on an A330. Think about all the power supplies and tv screens at the seats. You'd have to keep an eye on things.

As for the 400 pilots flying I think that's probably an over simplification. But you'd have 2 pilots minimum on all narrowbody flights. Some would have 3 if there's training going on. Some of the widebody flights would have 3 for the longer flights and then you'd have some crews away overnighting at outstations. Some would be on holidays and others out sick. Some commute from abroad.

So I think the intention was to say that of all the available pilots (around 400) 300 showed up.

MrMusician18 · 12-11-2025 08:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123983637#Comment_123983637

I'm not a pilot but a quick sum would show that having a crew of that size sitting out of position would move the centre of gravity, even on a lightly loaded aircraft by centimetres. So the safety reason does seem to be a big stretch on the face of it but I stand open to correction. Crew would be fully aware that weight and balance can sometimes (yes, not always) be a half truth used to get passengers to comply. Theyd also know that it wouldn't have prevented crew sitting in business on other ferry flights in the past.

And on the management side, it hardly seems like a good idea either to issue a directive in flight. That does look like a needless distraction and while it would have been less comfortable for the crew in economy, I'm sure they survived just fine. Passengers do.

Like many disputes, it's rarely about the incident at hand fundamentally. As a complete outsider It seems that there are major unaddressed industrial relations issues that are long standing in the airline. We passengers will probably see more of these incidents and unrest until those underlying grievances are addressed and put to bed. Hopefully management and unions can see this too, for everyone's benefit.

Qprmeath · 12-11-2025 09:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123983764#Comment_123983764

Your last paragraph is on the money.

Also this quieter time of the year is the time for both sides to engage in these “petty” squabbles.

HTCOne · 12-11-2025 10:36PM

Deviating from published procedures can get you absolutely hanged in this industry. During times of industrial unrest it is especially crucial to follow standard operating procedures to the letter so as to avoid the being nailed to the wall by anyone with an agenda in either direction. Following procedures is supposed to keep you safe. If this individual did that and is facing sanction then Just Culture is not being followed and that would be extremely concerning.

I also still think sending a message of this petty and trivial nature whilst the aircraft is in flight is unsafe. Ring the individual after they land, or send an email/memo out to crews after the fact, but don't try and intimidate a colleague while they are performing safety critical duties.

Nibs05 · 13-11-2025 08:05AM

Any news on DEG,

donkey balls · 13-11-2025 10:51AM

How can you have a situation were by you have Union members which has always being the case in EI, Then have non union staff? My current company is heavily involved when it comes to employees apart from mgmt having to be members of Siptu.

Even when we have temps/summer staff working they have to join the union. I'm surprised that they employed non union members.

lintdrummer · 13-11-2025 11:41AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123984625#Comment_123984625

It's not compulsory to join a union in the UK or Ireland. When you say that you have temps that have to join the union, I'm guessing they are strongly encouraged to by the reps and perhaps led to believe that it's compulsory, but it isn't.

Why some people don't join a union is a matter for them I suppose. Potential reasons might be that they don't want to pay the subscription fees, don't agree with the union policies or leadership, or maybe they had an experience before and felt the union wasn't helpful so they left.

Personally I'd rather have the backing of a union and the strength of numbers, but I know others that don't.

donkey balls · 13-11-2025 04:02PM

When i first started to work for the cargo airline 30 years ago, Maybe i was wet behind the ears as they didn't recognise Union membership at the time and it didn't bother me.My Father worked for Dublin corporation and best mate for the ESB. Both these jobs were heavily unionised.

Fast forward a few years later when another company i worked for got taking over by a UK company everyone rushed to join the union. At first the UK were all smiles and don't worry nothing would change etc.

Then they started messing about with the drivers ringing them at 2100hrs for a 0200hrs start time etc,(Messing around with rest times) One morning i was due in at 0200hrs and there was a letter there for me informing me of some sort of disciplinary. And this is were I can see the EI skipper point to an extent.

I was driving from Dublin to Donegal and that letter was playing on my mind all the way up to Donegal. Eventually i got hold of the union rep who imformed me it was to do with a tachograph offence and that a few drivers got the same letter.

Now the company could have worded the letter to say that Tachograph offence instead they had must attend a disciplinary meeting, Anyway went to the meeting and got the letter rescinded as they didn't check the back of the chart to see the manual entry i made.

About a year later all the transport staff were called into a meeting to say we lost the transport end of the contract, And they enter into negotiations regarding redundancy etc.

Well these shower of f**ks came back and informed all the transport staff that they be getting zilch, As we were employed by the supermarket chain and they won't pay out.

Our argument was that the uniform/payslip etc has the logistics company name on it not the Supermarket chain, We threatened them with picket action on two other sites then they agreed to pay out the redundancy.

Fast forward to my present company in order to work either in operations transport/admin everyone bar mgmt has to join the union as it's a company rule.

There is agreements in this place going back to the 60s/70s before i was even born, And one thing that really stuck in my mind is people working here 40 plus years. The company doesn't suffer from a high turnover of staff due to pay T&C. Etc.

Jack1985 · 13-11-2025 07:51PM

It is my understanding those Cabin Crew on board the BGI were UK Mgmt cosplaying as Crew. If the crew were planned to sit in J home, they should have been ticketed for the seats, loadsheet showing same distribution. Trying to negotiate this in flight was wholly inappropriate - Can completely understand the CP operating to the letter in this circumstance.

There is a lot of confusion thrown into this thread regarding the T&C's of EI Cabin Crew and travelling in J, which they are entitled to but to make it clear - EI ROI staff have plenty of T&C's, EUK staff have nothing similar to what their Irish colleagues have, which is a lot to do with the background of this dispute.

This could have been discussed post-landing. The COO was an eegit to think it was appropriate to direct operations to message the A/C in flight - These comms had what relevance to safe operation of this flight, exactly?

GasolineAlley · 13-11-2025 10:40PM

Can his Union protect him from Cabin Crew spitting in his coffee for the rest of his flying career?

lintdrummer · 13-11-2025 10:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123986698#Comment_123986698

Stupid comment but I'll tell you this: Most of the crew he'll be working with were on strike and any ill will they have won't be for the captain.

GasolineAlley · 13-11-2025 10:58PM

Not at all stupid. You would need to have achieved a very high state of zen not to be offended by what that Pilot did to those cabin crew.

Jonathan · 13-11-2025 11:12PM

What are the circumstances would have led to EI UK operating an empty plane back from BGI to MAN? If they operated a revenue flight over from MAN to BGI, why wouldn't they operate a revenue flight back?

IngazZagni · 13-11-2025 11:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123986737#Comment_123986737

You'll find it'll be the exact opposite. Those that crossed the picket line will become well known amongst their colleagues for all the wrong reasons. The cabin crew that crossed the picket line are in the minority. The majority of cabin crew may in fact agree with what happened.

None of this is pretty but at the end of the day if you don't stick up for yourselves you'll end up with pay and conditions that only benefit the shareholders and management but not those on the frontline.

lintdrummer · 13-11-2025 11:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123986772#Comment_123986772

With the cabin crew on strike for the day of the return flight, they didn't have enough non union crew to operate the flight home. I'm guessing they positioned as many as they could to Barbados in the hope of operating the flight, but it didn't work out. So then they had to fly back to base without passengers.

GasolineAlley · 13-11-2025 11:36PM

Being kind is a choice which this pilot chose not to make. He was under no obligation to treat the cabin crew so shabbily.

"may agree" is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting there IngazZagni.

Jack1985 · 13-11-2025 11:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123986807#Comment_123986807

You'd do well to summarise yourself with the facts. Manchester Cabin Crew have no hard feelings toward this pilot.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123986800#Comment_123986800

The outbound on the 02/11 was operated by UK Mgmt crew, who then positioned home immediately on the return sector - as it was canx in advance.

GasolineAlley · 14-11-2025 12:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123986830#Comment_123986830

So those poor cabin crew were "Scabs" rather than employees who had to operate the service and who naturally deserved this treatment from a single Pilot beyond what was expected from him by the Union.

The above posts are examples of Union Activists brigading the Boards.ie Aviation sub-forum whenever there is industrial action in Aer Lingus or Ryanair.

"canx" means that a plane load of paying passengers were also caught up in this action.

An impartial observer will suspect that those brigading on this forum may only spinning the yarn which flatters their bolshie Union members best.