Navan Rail Line

end of the road · 06-11-2025 06:37PM

we know this line needs to be built.
we know it has the numbers.
we know road transport and more of it is not the solution and will never work as the solution no matter how much capacity and upgrades are thrown at it.
even if it did cost a billion to build, it's better value then more road upgrades which will cost similar but will be full quite quickly.
those are the realities on the ground.

orangerhyme · 06-11-2025 06:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123967611#Comment_123967611

The M3 parkway train gets an average of 550 passengers a day.

There's motorways in Ireland that get over 100,000 vehicles per day, so god knows how many passengers that is.

How much will Navan add to the M3 Parkway line, maybe a 1000 a day?

There's no comparison.

I'm a big fan of rail by the way, but in this instance it's a waste of money.

I'd wait 20 or 30 years. Maybe the population will be there then to support it then. Just make sure the land is preserved.

Meath is one of the fastest growing counties in Ireland.

Navan could be 50,000 or 60,000 by then.

bikeman1 · 06-11-2025 07:03PM

1 billion is absolutely nothing in Ireland’s budget in 2025. That will create an asset that will be there for generations to come.

We literally cannot cram anymore cars on the road and our population will continue to increase for the foreseeable.

While the project is not number 1 priority, we absolutely should have a rail line to Navan with a decent Park and Ride for Dunshauglin. We have to give people alternatives. The NX is totally inadequate now and will be more so in years to come.

Consonata · 06-11-2025 08:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123967678#Comment_123967678

The budgetary restraints are less of an issue than the time it takes to drag such a project through planning and get it to the finished product. I think time to deliver is the more finite resource than money, and it probably isn't the most value for money project that we have available to us at the moment.

cgcsb · 06-11-2025 10:23PM

It'll be interesting to see what reforms are made to planning. The strategy calls for electrifying and improving the line speed of most of the rail work. If it takes 4 or 5 years of planning just to do one section then it'll take generations. There has to be some mechanism that allows CIE to do upgrade works within its own boundary without dragging the arse out of the state with planning, consultation and appeals for the guts of a decade. Navan is different in that it's one of the few proposed extensions of the existing network.

bikeman1 · 06-11-2025 11:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123968224#Comment_123968224

Yes, this has to be allowed. We are decades behind in electrification and double tracking. And now we can’t even reopen a line from the capital city to a big growing town.

It’s all depressing how our planning system will be our downfall.

marno21 · 06-11-2025 11:46PM

Value for money sceptics of this project would do well to look at the current mass squandering of money by the Government and may conclude that tangible infrastructure investment of any kind is reasonable.

A commuter rail of this type would be fantastic, especially when combined with other enhancements in the GDA (e.g. Navan to Charlemont would be a very easy journey with both this rail link and Metrolink in place)

Pete_Cavan · 07-11-2025 06:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123968224#Comment_123968224

mechanism that allows CIE to do upgrade works within its own boundary without dragging the arse out

But there isn't a CIE boundary for much of the former alignment, large sections are completely gone. Even if CIE could do whatever they want on their property without the need for any form of approval, that wouldn't help here.

CatInABox · 07-11-2025 07:23AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123968566#Comment_123968566

I think that you missed the last line in cgcsb's post, where he pointed out exactly what you said.

KrisW1001 · 07-11-2025 08:28AM

I’m sceptical about the value proposition of a routing along the old corridor (which mostly west of M2), but a new alignment that runs east of M3 to serve Dunshaughlin would have a much higher benefit-cost ratio, and would also allow more development around Dunsaughlin - a far easier task than creating a brand new town from scratch along the old route.

CatInABox · 07-11-2025 09:02AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123968666#Comment_123968666

I urge people to take a look at the Cost Benefit Analysis done in 2019 on the Navan rail line.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Navan-Rail-Line-Assessment-Report.pdf

Option A, reusing the existing alignment, has a much higher BCR over Option B, a route that goes closer to Dunshaughlin. As stated in the report, this is down to option A having higher benefits while also costing less.

Of course, they'll likely redo any CBA for the line again, with land use built directly into the CBA. Navan rail line, along with two, maybe three SDZs along the route, would result in a massively positive BCR. They shouldn't need to, to be honest, as it's fairly obvious that this would be a successful project, but even with Collison calling out the government over using reports and Czars and consultants as mud guards, I doubt anything else will change for this project.

goingnowhere · 07-11-2025 09:42AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123968566#Comment_123968566

CIE already has the rights to maintain the railway, no planning required for upgrades, new signalling, realignments etc. In theory you can put up overhead wires without planning etc. That applies to any line not officially abandoned.

None of the former Navan line is in CIE ownership so its a start from zero with full RO application

KrisW1001 · 07-11-2025 10:23AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123968737#Comment_123968737

I just checked that again. The “Option B” in that report was basically the historic alignment with a diversion to Dunshaughlin that then immediately went back over M3 onto the old alignment. Of course it was worse: it made the line longer and added a second crossing of M3 to the build cost.

If it’s true that none of the alignment belongs to CIÉ anymore, there’s really no reason to follow that old route - it’s better to take a shorter route that serves more people, and that would be one to the east of M3.

CatInABox · 07-11-2025 10:34AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123968924#Comment_123968924

I fully believe that they will go with option A, despite any obvious benefits from going on a different route.

They will justify it as easier legally, as they are taking back land that was originally theirs in the first place. Like it or not, that counts to the Irish state.

goingnowhere · 07-11-2025 10:59AM

There are several significant structures remaining on the original route you would never get approval to build today. There is the hidden Boyne Viaduct which is in near perfect condition for one and numerous bridges

The alignment is pretty much still there, its a much easier sell under environmental obligations as well, land cost would be cheaper and construction costs less as the Victorians did the leg work for us

end of the road · 07-11-2025 07:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123967643#Comment_123967643

and? so what? it's irrelevant given the relevant factors.
you have to drive to and from a dump in the middle of a field and pay a toal to do it + the train fare, meaning that it's just easier to continue to drive.
when they actually get a train line into navan then 500 will be a half of every train as numbers will balloon.
the m3 parkway line is the navan, they just didn't finish it all the way like they were supposed to do.
if building a line to navan is a waste of money then any alternative to it (as in more road transport begorr) is going to be an octupple waste of money as it will be beyond capacity within aday meaning the line has to be built anyway.
ergo it's not a waste of money as the carbon fines will thankfully be multiples of the cost.
the population is there now, waiting 30 years is unviable due to cost, the billions or even multiple billions needed to be spent to avoid building the rail line are just not there.

building the line is the only option and the cheaper option ultimately.

BagofWeed · 07-11-2025 08:02PM

You know they'll be no line there within the next thirty years. Crazy really but we do things by doing nothing sadly that's our way.

citizen6 · 07-11-2025 09:12PM

A Navan P&R north of the toll would get decent numbers of people from Oldcastle, Kells, Virginia etc. A Kilmessan P&R would get people from Trim.

goingnowhere · 07-11-2025 09:40PM

Well putting M3 Parkway north of the toll was originally the plan

Insert conspiracy theory here, had that been done patronage would be greater

road_high · 07-11-2025 09:46PM

I’m sure there’s probably major capacity issues but surely a shuttle service into Drogheda and change there on the Dublin Belfast line is an obvious very cost effective alternative? The infrastructure is already there and open!

L1011 · 07-11-2025 09:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123970858#Comment_123970858

Those trains are already very full (and future capacity enhancements will likely induce demand fast); and the end to end time would be appalling.

The published notional Navan-Drogheda-Dublin times are express, or express via Drogheda and exceptionally neat transfer times; not reality for stopping services.

PeadarCo · 07-11-2025 10:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123970858#Comment_123970858

If it was such a good idea this would have been done years ago. The reason it hasn't is because regular bus services obliterate the potential train journey times to Dublin via Drogheda even at rush hour. It could never compete with the bus to Dublin. Navan and Dublin are only about 30 minutes from each other give or take depending where you determine the city and town limits to be .

The biggest issue currently with the bus service is rush hour traffic in the city and on the M3 heading into Dublin from pretty much the toll before Clonee onwards. Navan has a better bus service to Dublin city centre than large parts of Dublin city itself. At certain times of the day demand can exceed capacity. The demand for this bus service is the biggest justification for the train due to the demand even with the traffic problems on M3 and into the city.

The success of the bus service does suggest there is a case for ignoring the old alignment and following a new route that takes in Dunshaughlin and potentially Ratoath neither of which the old alignment went close to.

Navan Rail Line

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