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Navan Rail Line

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Comments

  • #692
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,734 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    we know this line needs to be built.
    we know it has the numbers.
    we know road transport and more of it is not the solution and will never work as the solution no matter how much capacity and upgrades are thrown at it.
    even if it did cost a billion to build, it's better value then more road upgrades which will cost similar but will be full quite quickly.
    those are the realities on the ground.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #693
    orangerhyme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,401 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123967611#Comment_123967611

    The M3 parkway train gets an average of 550 passengers a day.

    There's motorways in Ireland that get over 100,000 vehicles per day, so god knows how many passengers that is.

    How much will Navan add to the M3 Parkway line, maybe a 1000 a day?

    There's no comparison.

    I'm a big fan of rail by the way, but in this instance it's a waste of money.

    I'd wait 20 or 30 years. Maybe the population will be there then to support it then. Just make sure the land is preserved.

    Meath is one of the fastest growing counties in Ireland.

    Navan could be 50,000 or 60,000 by then.



  • #694
    bikeman1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    1 billion is absolutely nothing in Ireland’s budget in 2025. That will create an asset that will be there for generations to come.

    We literally cannot cram anymore cars on the road and our population will continue to increase for the foreseeable.

    While the project is not number 1 priority, we absolutely should have a rail line to Navan with a decent Park and Ride for Dunshauglin. We have to give people alternatives. The NX is totally inadequate now and will be more so in years to come.



  • #695
    Consonata
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭Consonata


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123967678#Comment_123967678

    The budgetary restraints are less of an issue than the time it takes to drag such a project through planning and get it to the finished product. I think time to deliver is the more finite resource than money, and it probably isn't the most value for money project that we have available to us at the moment.



  • #696
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,329 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    It'll be interesting to see what reforms are made to planning. The strategy calls for electrifying and improving the line speed of most of the rail work. If it takes 4 or 5 years of planning just to do one section then it'll take generations. There has to be some mechanism that allows CIE to do upgrade works within its own boundary without dragging the arse out of the state with planning, consultation and appeals for the guts of a decade. Navan is different in that it's one of the few proposed extensions of the existing network.



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  • #697
    bikeman1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123968224#Comment_123968224

    Yes, this has to be allowed. We are decades behind in electrification and double tracking. And now we can’t even reopen a line from the capital city to a big growing town.

    It’s all depressing how our planning system will be our downfall.



  • #698
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Value for money sceptics of this project would do well to look at the current mass squandering of money by the Government and may conclude that tangible infrastructure investment of any kind is reasonable.

    A commuter rail of this type would be fantastic, especially when combined with other enhancements in the GDA (e.g. Navan to Charlemont would be a very easy journey with both this rail link and Metrolink in place)



  • #699
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,531 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123968224#Comment_123968224

    mechanism that allows CIE to do upgrade works within its own boundary without dragging the arse out

    But there isn't a CIE boundary for much of the former alignment, large sections are completely gone. Even if CIE could do whatever they want on their property without the need for any form of approval, that wouldn't help here.



  • #700
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123968566#Comment_123968566

    I think that you missed the last line in cgcsb's post, where he pointed out exactly what you said.



  • #701
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,974 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I’m sceptical about the value proposition of a routing along the old corridor (which mostly west of M2), but a new alignment that runs east of M3 to serve Dunshaughlin would have a much higher benefit-cost ratio, and would also allow more development around Dunsaughlin - a far easier task than creating a brand new town from scratch along the old route.



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  • #702
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123968666#Comment_123968666

    I urge people to take a look at the Cost Benefit Analysis done in 2019 on the Navan rail line.

    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Navan-Rail-Line-Assessment-Report.pdf

    Option A, reusing the existing alignment, has a much higher BCR over Option B, a route that goes closer to Dunshaughlin. As stated in the report, this is down to option A having higher benefits while also costing less.

    Of course, they'll likely redo any CBA for the line again, with land use built directly into the CBA. Navan rail line, along with two, maybe three SDZs along the route, would result in a massively positive BCR. They shouldn't need to, to be honest, as it's fairly obvious that this would be a successful project, but even with Collison calling out the government over using reports and Czars and consultants as mud guards, I doubt anything else will change for this project.



  • #703
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,513 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123968566#Comment_123968566

    CIE already has the rights to maintain the railway, no planning required for upgrades, new signalling, realignments etc. In theory you can put up overhead wires without planning etc. That applies to any line not officially abandoned.

    None of the former Navan line is in CIE ownership so its a start from zero with full RO application



  • #704
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,974 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123968737#Comment_123968737

    I just checked that again. The “Option B” in that report was basically the historic alignment with a diversion to Dunshaughlin that then immediately went back over M3 onto the old alignment. Of course it was worse: it made the line longer and added a second crossing of M3 to the build cost.

    If it’s true that none of the alignment belongs to CIÉ anymore, there’s really no reason to follow that old route - it’s better to take a shorter route that serves more people, and that would be one to the east of M3.



  • #705
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123968924#Comment_123968924

    I fully believe that they will go with option A, despite any obvious benefits from going on a different route.

    They will justify it as easier legally, as they are taking back land that was originally theirs in the first place. Like it or not, that counts to the Irish state.



  • #706
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,513 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    There are several significant structures remaining on the original route you would never get approval to build today. There is the hidden Boyne Viaduct which is in near perfect condition for one and numerous bridges

    The alignment is pretty much still there, its a much easier sell under environmental obligations as well, land cost would be cheaper and construction costs less as the Victorians did the leg work for us



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