Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

I think this is an excellent summary and, having watched bits of it back, I'd suggest the kicks-from-hand were differing in quality based on the type of kick.

Imo, his contestables were his poorest type of kick from hand. A kick is only as good as it's chase, but there were definitely a decent number that were too long, and gave the chaser little chance.

However, I'd go as far as saying his other kicks-from-hand in play were much better quality and he was unlucky with some. For example:

• The grubber in the first half was an quality kick, and just dribbled over the try line, he was unlucky. (For me, Osborne doesn't quite have the pace you want to attack a grubber from that range imo)
• The grubber in the 2nd half was a decent kick, but it was a brilliant read from Will Jordan.
• The chip to TOB was also a good kick, and on another day it falls into his arms and we're over.

But more importantly here, they were all good decisions too imo.

His contestables and kicks down the line are the 2 types of kick he needs to improve most, imo (we've seen an improvement on his goal kicking this season that I expect to continue). But his grubbers, kicks in behind and chips, I think he's already got enough quality with.

Crowley wasn't great, we had a lot of possession and territory in the first half and he did nothing with it. Not his fault but he didn't make anything happen with a lot of ball. Prendergast looked worse when he came on, similar to Crowley last year, trying to make something happen against the odds. But I'm much more worried about the coaching honestly. Scrum and line out are a real mess and both have been for years now. I'm not sure what the attack plan is, though it's hard when noone has any confidence in the set piece, including the opposition. To think we were lethal off scrum and line out, off goal line drop outs, off broken ball, just a few years ago, and now in a game where the wheels came of for NZ for an hour and we couldn't buy a score.

If our game plan is up and under we are doomed, we do not have the pace (nor the kicking accuracy) to make that game work against NZ, France or SA. They will eat it up and use it to score against us as the ABs did a the weekend. We did well on Saturday with a short game, one off carriers pulling in their forwards. We made yards most of the time and it disturbed NZs ability to settle and get into their game. The stop start stuff helped. That game needs great decisions from 9 and 10 to read the room and change the picture to build an attack, that was absent and we seemed to abandon that approach towards the end of the first half. That and our first half defence were the only positives from Saturday. The team will get better as the series progresses but the bigger questions about set pieces and attack aren't going to be easily answered.

if Prendergast had been turned over for that penalty in the way Crowley was the uproar from certain posters would be unholy so it can be hard to take the arguments on here at face value at times.

I'd agree with a lot of your post, but it's fair to say the exact same thing can be said the other way round too amongst other certain posters.

And fwiw, I think the talk about Crowley's "ceiling" is wide of the mark. Here's what Ian Madigan, for me the best pundit around at the moment, has said on the topic, and I don't think one poor game has changed that:

One thing that does frustrate me and you hear it sometimes when you hear people talking about the ceiling of players, and this was coming up last year, "Prendergast has a higher ceiling than Crowley".

That's trying to predict the future. And sometimes players don't fulfil their predicted ceiling. And I'm not saying that Prendergast won't go on to be a brilliant outhalf, I think he will. But Crowley maybe is showing that his ceiling is actually higher than you thought it was. "Maybe I've got more layers than you originally thought".

We have one big physical player who is a try scoring machine and line breaker for his province and Farrell has never picked him. Gavin Coombes.

Edogbo also fits this bill but was unfortunately concussed against Leinster. At least Farrell was willing to select him.

Has He linked back up with the squad or is he out of the squad because of the concussion?

I'd love to see him come on against a tiring Japan and have a stormer. Really make it easy for farrell to have him on the bench for the 6N.

Second Row isn't an area of weakness with Beirne, Ryan and McCarthy, but Edogbo is a real prospect so I hope he can reach his potential

I think calling Coombs a try scoring machine is a bit of hyperbole. Last season he scored 8 tries in 22 games for Munster, Doris scored 5 tries in 11 games for Leinster and 3 from 8 games for Ireland. Conan scored 5 from 18 for Leinster and 3 tries from 5 games for Ireland. So not a massively different try scoring rates, but you need to consider that Doris probably played against more difficult opposition compared to Coombs scoring 2 tries against Zebre. 23/24 season matches up pretty evenly on tries scored too. Doris also has a better all around game so I don't understand the calls for Coombs to be brought into the Irish team on the basis of being a try scoring machine.

Coombes is a better passer than Doris; he passes more often, he offloads more often and he has fewer bad passes when he does pass. Whenever Doris goes over 400 minutes or so in a competition he pass accuracy usually reverts below 90%. Doris has had 300 minute runs or so where he passed above 90% but has had some terrible runs where he was below 80% pass accuracy too. Coombes can go 1,000 minutes played, go way over 100 passes and stay in the low 90's pass accuracy and has had small sample size champions cup runs where he went 97% pass accuracy. On the eye test, he tries way more audacious passes than Doris, while keeping his stats higher, like you rarely, if ever, see Doris attempting passes like these:

he's a good lad, Beauden…

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0UjYG7_b5PU

I know there are certainly Prendergast and Crowley 'Camps' who are over the top in each direction but from what i observe (as a connacht supporter who thinks they're both decent with significant holes in their game)- crowley gets nowhere near the same foaming at the mouth vitriolic abuse online that Prendergast got this year. Moreso twitter than here but some of it was genuinely disgusting and wrapped up in the excuse of 'i just hate that he is so overhyped' etc. And again, I think Crowley is better at the moment but not sure he has improved a lot in the 2 years he's been with the ireland team, while Prendergast just has more road in front of him

Fwiw, Boards point of difference is that it isn't Twitter, that long-form discussions can be had. (I never go near the place tbh, it's toxic).

But even at that, I think it's fair to say they both attract nonsense on here at times. There's plenty from both that is hard to take at face value.

Conan should be fine for the next RWC as a replacement for Doris but we should be planning for afterwards and for an injury to either of them. That's why I think someone like Gleeson who is at the start of their career, and is arguably as good as Coombs, should be taking that 3rd spot with an eye to develop further. It's unfortunate for Coombs but that's professional sport and you could probably put the likes of Deegan in that bracket too of players who are capable but the chance has alluded them to lock down a permanent spot on the Irish squad early enough in their career.