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Irish firefighter found guilty of rape in Boston!

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭Lecter8319


    I believe he was subpoened in the first trial and gave evidence but was deemed not to be important enough in the second trial either by the prosecution or defence. Its mad he was asleep for the whole thing. Logic would say he'd be very useful to either side in painting a picture of the woman in question or Crosbie the night of the incident or morning after. I believe the prosecution called him in the first trial (although im not 100% on this) so that speaks volumes in itself. If he was really sure of Crosbie's innocence, you'd imagine he'd be one of the first people on the stand to defend his innocent colleague who he felt comfortable enough to share a room with in a foreign country rather than see him go down for rape. That the defence didnt want anything to do with him says alot.

    Ultimately, I think Crosbie hung himself as someone previously pointed out. The masturbation admission, the pinning her down question to police, attempting to escape, saying he never touched her. DNA of another male profile and her convincing testimony as opposed to his BS testimony were the final nails in the coffin.

    Apparently, he'll be doing his time in the prison, Souza-Baranowski Correctional Center, Lancaster, Massachusetts, United States

    Same place Aaron Hernandez killed himself in. He'll be lucky to get through it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,782 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    I genuinely don’t think anyone is against the verdict. I certainly am not. There is no reasonable doubt. He is guilty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Married with kids. Presume the marriage is over now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    You never know. She supported him throughout the trial and may still have a genuine belief that he's innocent. As of now, she's alone with two kids to rear and no income.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    I was talking about the firefighter who had consensual sex with the woman, not the rapist.

    What makes you think Crosbie’s wife has no income? Massive debt alright, but has an income. Hope she’s smart enough to realise he’s guilty, and she’ll move on with her life.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 424 ✭✭watchclocker


    Or, she may be scared, she may have believed him because you would want to....wouldn't you? And then even when the doubt crept in she supported him because if she didn't and he was found innocent then what? She'd look like a bitch....so she supported him throughout and now that he's been found guilty it's very hard for her to turn her back and to explain to her children she no longer believes him because 12 strangers said she shouldn't

    I'm just trying to put myself in her shoes for a minute

    Every wife wants to believe her husband is not that man, because what if she doesn't believe that? Does that mean she's allowed herself to be married to someone like that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 92 ✭✭JM2300


    Nobody knows for sure what happened in that room except for the parties involved. That's a fact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 92 ✭✭JM2300




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Pete Moss


    Further to my point above, the only person who could have ultimately clarified matters was the roommate (his name has been published in plenty of articles on the case) who had consensual sex with the victim.

    From what the victim said, the roommate was panned out in the bed when she returned from the bathroom after they had sex, so she got into the spare (Crosbie's) bed. I understand the roommate must've had more than a skinful and traveled to Boston too. Therefore, it is easy to say he slept through the whole commotion. Surely though, if he felt Crosbie had done nothing or there had been a misunderstanding, he could have taken to the stand to shed some sort of light on Crosbie's demeanor the next morning or provide an account of anything Crosbie had said to him which might slightly help a man facing 20 years in a U.S jail.

    I believe the roommate was also a married man, so undoubtedly him testifying would have disrupted his family life further, owing to the revelations that came out of him sleeping with this woman. However, if a friend, colleague or even stranger who you believe to be innocent is going to be sent down for potentially 20 years in a foreign country and you can help prevent that, then any decent person would do all they can to help.

    I'm not saying at all that the roommate's absence from the trial is a smoking gun or anything like it, but it is a point to be considered along with the mix of inconsistencies and other questions surrounding the trial.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,280 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Didn't realise he was married himself. Feel very very sorry for poor wife and children.

    I say it was one long flight home for them.

    No excuse for what he did.

    Who I feel sorry for most is victim. It must be scary to go through all that again in court.

    EVENFLOW



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭JVince


    Ah come on - he tried to do a runner by booking a flight before the event he went over for - and then he managed to get on an even earlier flight.

    He thought he was on his way home but he got taken off the plane.

    The circumstantial evidence was overwhelming and his stories had all the hallmarks of being rehearsed to the bones.

    As for the first jury - we don't know if it was 9/3 or 6/6, but my guess is it was closer to 9/3.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,582 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    I hope the GoFundMe fund raiser set up for him is a massive failure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I believe he is guilty but I definitely think there is reasonable doubt. Without any actual evidence, I will always have some doubt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,782 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    I assume you mean physical evidence, such as dna . There is lots of evidence



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,757 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    There was one for the first trial that was shut down- I believe it made about 10k or so - is there another one? I couldn’t see it making much given the result of the second trial and the evidence the verdict is based on


    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/online-fundraiser-for-dublin-firefighter-accused-of-rape-removed-1784882.html

    Edit- I see a second one for the second trial raised at least 34k


    https://www.facebook.com/irishmirror/posts/a-fundraiser-has-been-set-up-by-family-friends-and-colleagues-of-dublin-firefigh/1237366665086016/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 813 ✭✭✭ngunners


    ´Beyond reasonable doubt’ does not mean ´no doubt’. He’s been convicted and it’s safe to say he’s guilty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,766 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    Why? He’s already in prison so he won’t be affected but his wife and kids will be if they’ve no money



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 508 ✭✭✭slay55


    The go fund me page was for paying the legal fees


    last I saw it had around 32k with a target of 45k



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,766 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    if the gofundme fails his wife will have to cover the legal fees



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,582 ✭✭✭skimpydoo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭Lecter8319


    Id like to believe reasonable doubt means you believe the accused is 75/80% guilty at least. In this case, it seems the jury definitely did imo. The fact that all members of the jury felt it met this threshold shows to me, its a safe conviction.

    If his defence attorneys had any cop on, they would have focused on the accusers behaviour in the days before the trial. Was she intimate with any other man because this might have saved him as the other unknown males dna was never explained. Otherwise they should have strongly advised him to come clean about having sexual intercourse with her.

    He seemed to think because his specific DNA wasnt found on her, that this would save him. It was a strategy doomed to failure from the start.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 508 ✭✭✭slay55


    she claimed in court that she hadn’t had sex in months…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,324 ✭✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Id like to believe reasonable doubt means you believe the accused is 75/80% guilty at least.

    Some interesting reading here:

    https://www.jameslawgroup.net/1814/beyond-a-reasonable-doubt/

    If you click through to the actual jury charge:

    Revised January 26, 2015

    PROOF BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT
    [This instruction must be given verbatim]


    The burden is on the Commonwealth to prove beyond a reasonable
    doubt that the defendant is guilty of the charge(s) made against him (her).


    What is proof beyond a reasonable doubt? The term is often used and probably pretty well understood, though it is not easily defined. Proof
    beyond a reasonable doubt does not mean proof beyond all possible
    doubt, for everything in the lives of human beings is open to some possible or imaginary doubt. A charge is proved beyond a reasonable doubt if, after
    you have compared and considered all of the evidence, you have in your
    minds an abiding conviction, to a moral certainty, that the charge is true. When we refer to moral certainty, we mean the highest degree of certainty possible in matters relating to human affairs -- based solely on the
    evidence that has been put before you in this case.

    I have told you that every person is presumed to be innocent until he
    or she is proved guilty, and that the burden of proof is on the prosecutor. If you evaluate all the evidence and you still have a reasonable doubt
    remaining, the defendant is entitled to the benefit of that doubt and must
    be acquitted.


    It is not enough for the Commonwealth to establish a probability,
    even a strong probability, that the defendant is more likely to be guilty than
    not guilty. That is not enough. Instead, the evidence must convince you of
    the defendant's guilt to a reasonable and moral certainty; a certainty that
    convinces your understanding and satisfies your reason and judgment as
    jurors who are sworn to act conscientiously on the evidence.

    This is what we mean by proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

    That last bit, emphasis mine, might sway juries more from 'beyond any reasonable doubt' towards 'within a reasonable degree of certainty' which is a different thing entirely. I can see it being challenged in the future.

    Interestingly, in Texas:

    After 2000, Texas required its trial courts to NOT define beyond a reasonable doubt for the jury at all. So, Texas juries are merely instructed that the State must prove its charges beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Texas now views any attempt to further define the concept as potentially confusing to jurors. Texas deems defining it not only as unnecessary, but also as potentially harmful to justice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    There is no physical evidence that they even had intercourse let alone that it was non consensual intercourse. I couldn't convict beyond reasonable doubt if I was on the jury. None physical evidence for me is sound in support of physical evidence but on its own, I wouldn't convict. It would mean that I wouldn't convict a man that I believe is guilty but it would protect me from the potential of a false conviction which is worse than not convicting a guilty defendant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭Lecter8319


    https://www.wbur.org/news/2024/09/26/massachusetts-maximum-security-prison-violence

    This was only a year ago. This wont be the last we hear about Crosbie.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,757 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    The appeal is underway - aside from the news summaries I haven’t read anything other than what they’ve covered.

    This is a “he said she said” trial given lack of DNA evidence - although the results of DNA testing as “inconclusive” can’t have helped him.
    88 pages of character reference were submitted on his behalf .

    Not sure what’s left to appeal against- I understand the shock of his family and friends and wanting to help- but there’s been nothing in the coverage that would suggest the legal process itself wasn’t fair - the fact his tweet from 2017 was excluded as evidence by the judge sort of suggests that fairness was the order of the day


    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/our-world-has-been-turned-upside-down-88-pages-of-character-letters-submitted-for-terence-crosbie-as-his-appeal-over-rape-conviction-is-lodged/a620625642.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,324 ✭✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Reasonable doubt is the standard of proof required in a criminal trial, meaning the prosecution must present evidence so convincing that there is no other logical or probable explanation for the crime except that the accused committed it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,782 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    there were crosbies own comments though. “Did she say she was pinned down” He was asking the police questions about it, all the while incriminating himself, knowing details about it that only someone who was there could know.

    If he had followed McRapists No Comment routine he’d have gotten away with it.

    EDIT…

    If he'd done the no comment routine he MIGHT have gotten away with it. Saying he would have gotten away with it, when i wasn't on the jury and privvy to all details of the investigation and conviction is unfair to the Boston Police as well as the victim

    Post edited by knucklehead6 on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    So rapists who wear condoms and don't leave DNA, you would have to acquit?

    Historical rape and sexual abuse, you would have to acquit?

    Sexual assault which took place outside the clothing, acquittal?

    Thank God the Justice System here at least has moved on from that.



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