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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭✭almostover


    VdF has been well off his best with 12 months. He was outplayed by Curry and Jac Morgan in the 6N and couldn't displace either on the Lions tour.

    He worked hard yesterday but couldn't make any meaningful impact on the game, aside from 1 turnover. His rucking for the Crowley holding on penalty was hopeless and he was caught totally flat footed by their 9 for the final try. I worry about what Fraser McReight will do to our ruck ball in 2 weeks time. VdF has never gone well agaisnt him.

    For me, him and Ringrose are a big worry. 2 very important players who have been out of form for an extended period.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    Van Der Flier has not been 'out of form'.

    Those two games against Curry and Morgan in the 6N, he was one of the three best players on the pitch, just in each time his opposite number would turn in POTM performances. Similarly against Pollock in the Champions Cup. He was probably Leinster's best player that day but yet he's the one that's held to the higher standard because his opposite number turns in a world-class performance.

    We get this on a regular basis with Van Der Flier for a very bizarre reason. I was lambasted for saying he is one of the most under-appreciated Irish rugby players I can remember not so long ago. Any time he has a game that's slightly below his very high standard the knives are out for him. It happens every year.

    One game. Let's keep the dramatics and hysteria aside for one series can we not?

    Ringrose is another matter entirely. When previously he would shoot out of the line and smash lads, he's falling off them now. A big concern.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    Actually I just had to remind myself.

    England's opposite number didn't outplay Van Der Flier that day, and this is not the first time this has been pointed out.

    mod edit

    Post edited by Lost Ormond on


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,865 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He was always prone to missing a good few, but he generally at least put the ball carrier/passer under pressure and disrupt the attacking structure. He's shooting out into space now. We have far more options at 12 than 13 though, absolutely no idea who should come in to replace him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,571 ✭✭✭OldRio


    VDF is not a problem. They are a few that are but just no



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭jem


    I actually blame team management for where we are at with the 10 situation. should have stuck with crowley last year and allowed Prendergast to grow / develop / learn ( including physically ) with leinster.

    I feel they damaged the confidence of both players in the past 12 months and in fact have damaged the team as a whole.

    Was Crowley brilliant yesterday no he did ok. Some poor kicks, some excellent ones, some good passages of play and some not so good. Thing is that his ability to take ball into contact and also defend has him quite a few steps ahead in my opinion . I also think he has the bottle for the big games. I do think he needs a run of games as 10 and needs to be told that. He needs to get game time with the other players in a green shirt for them to get used to him and visa versa.

    On another note I do think the bringing over current international players on short term contracts like Barrett is a huge mistake yes I know about video analysis etc but putting the likes of him into the squad that makes up the majority of our team gives unnecessary information and insights that could come against us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,311 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    Tom Farrell, the inaugural United Rugby Championship Playmaker of the Year  for the 2024/25 season, rolls his eyes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,642 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I hate that we're back to being such a boring team to watch. We looked like a Kidney era mess out there at times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,539 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    I don’t think you can blame the management for Crowley’s performance last night down to being dropped last year. He came into the game in great form unlike last year. It’s up to him to take his opportunity and he’s struggled to do that last night and on other occasions since he broke into the team.

    Consistency seems an issue with him. When he’s good, he’s very good but he’s prone to errors at this level especially from the boot. He had a lovely offload last night which shows what he can do with ball in hand. Hopefully he can iron these errors out and put in big performances against Australia and SA as I think he needs it if he wants to keep his place going into the 6N as you’d have to assume Prendergast will improve before then. Definitely a weak area for us at the moment but both players should improve in the following 2 years with experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

    This is Nienabers fault.

    Ringrose is over committing in defense.
    I reckon he was concussed after that shot he put in on BB.

    He was miles off when shooting out of the line a few mins later.

    Just as the positives of Lancaster were evident in the Irish team the negatives of Nienaber are clear for all to see.

    The forwards skills in phase play have also dropped considerably.

    The Leinster players are poorly coached.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,571 ✭✭✭OldRio


    That's one hell of an accusation to make for a 'I reckon'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,562 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Watch how teams nullify or contain Leinster and you can do the same for Ireland. For good, bad or indifferent no other international team is so reliant on one team. Now that some of those are past their peak it's easier to beat us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,865 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Ringrose has been missing tackles for years, as far back as around 2018 when he was interviewed about it, it's not a Nienaber thing. He's not a great defender in terms of shooting out anyway (or distributor) but the huge hits when he does land them paper over these misses.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,723 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I'd go for pretty much the same team. I'd probably have Bealham ahead of Furlong for the Japan game, Furlong will be expected to play a lot of minutes in the subsequent two games so taking it easy next weekend would be good for him. Also, it means Bealham is better prepared if Furlong goes down early in either of the other two games. Kelleher probably should start against Japan for the same reasons.

    Crowley should be told that he's getting a rest next week but will be starting for the other two games. He needs to be backed, he seems like the kind of guy who will respond well and rise to the challenge.

    We clearly need new blood at 12, that has to be Osborne. McCloskey did well yesterday but we need to be looking to the WC. Aki and Henshaw should be put out to pasture. Osborne playing 15 again would be a waste of time, he won't be playing there when Keenan is available. Osborne should be our starting 12 for the 6N and that process has to start next week - I don't care if that means playing Henderson at 15.

    We obviously need to transition away from Ringrose at 13 too but there are no other options in the squad currently. That's a corner AF has painted himself into unfortunately. Tom Farrell, while a very good player in excellent form but he isn't the answer. James Hume needs to be seriously looked at, pity it isn't happening now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    It’s not that the Leinster players are passed their peak it’s more that they are poorly coached at Leinster.

    I also have reservations about Goodman and unfortunately POC



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,571 ✭✭✭OldRio




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,311 ✭✭✭TRC10


    It’s ok lads. Andy will pick the same team again next week. We’ll be told he’s “giving them a chance to redeem themselves” like we always are. They’ll manage to beat Japan and it’ll be same again for SA and Aus.

    Honestly though anyone with a brain has seen this coming. The downward trend in performance has been clear for over a year now and it’s now starting to translate into a downward trend in results. But the problems have been there for a lot longer.

    This November and upcoming 6N is going to be extremely rough for us. But it could have been avoided if Farrell actually evolved the team steadily post the World Cup. Also POC should have been got rid of after the World Cup when our lineout was a complete disaster then. 2 years later and nothing has changed there. You reap what you sow. Goodman has also been a complete disaster since taking over the attack.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    Well ok. I do think he was. Look back at that hit. There is no way he didn’t shake his own brain. It’s just different levels of concussion.

    He was absolutely miles off when shooting out later. That’s really not like him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭✭almostover


    I fear that you're likely correct. The lack of creativity in the centres is the major issue but I don't see any changes there. Worse still, Aki could end up starting this next game



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭jem


    Thing is that it is like him. He does shoot out from the line quite a bit and a fair % doesnt work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,571 ✭✭✭OldRio


    I really don't think you understand concussion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 593 ✭✭✭exiledawaynothere


    I think Osborne is a fine player. The question many will ask is why should he be selected in the centre by Ireland if Leinster don’t select him there? I don’t think the current set up in Leinster is helping Ireland nor the elite and highly talented Irish qualified players in the Ireland squad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭jem


    I would play Tom Farrell. I would also play crowley and tell him that he is No.1 for all the November internationals giving him game time with JGP ( if you are playing the latter which I am unsure about) . I would agree about giving Furlong a rest



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,259 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Why would furlong need a rest. He has played about 10-12 games this year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 299 ✭✭kig


    I don't think we can lay the blame at the players feet, just about all of the leinster players hadn't even played a full 80 minutes this season. They team looked totally under cooked, against a battle hardened All Blacks team. Dan Sheehan had played 35 minutes going into this game, and it showed.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,865 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Do people think our 10s are some kind of delicate petals that need to be caressed and treated like babies.

    Crowley got dropped cause he was playing poorly. If you can't handle that you don't deserve to be a professional sportsperson.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭Packrat


    That is some nonsense.

    He got dropped because the next shiny thing attracted Farrell et al.

    It was a big setback in the development of a young 10.

    Im all for giving young options gametime INCLUDING Prendergast. But the way the 6 nations was divided was not clever or helpful to either player.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,642 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I'm desperate for Osborne to get time at 12, but McCloskey has earned that jersey. I'd play him at 13, if Farrell isn't going to try Gavin or Farrell.

    There's a fundamental issue with our back 3. Farrell built around Lowe and Hansen, trading their lack of speed for playmaking, while foregoing incision in the centres. Due to injury and decline, they aren't as effective at that anymore, and we're left in a poor spot. Age and injury profiles mean we have to look at a big shake up in personnel, and with it playing style. Back players in form, with speed and an ability to create breaks.

    Goodman is a failure, he just needs to go. I thought Catt was useless too, until this point in the last cycle, when we blew everyone away in Nov 21. The team somehow looks even worse than last year.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,539 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    It’s hardly nonsense though is it? Why would you drop a player if he was doing the business for you week in week out? There isn’t a conspiracy. Crowley has started the last two meaningful games for Ireland (Italy in the 6N and NZ) and hasn’t shot the lights out.



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