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Israel/Palestine Thread

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Comments

  • Site Banned Posts: 2,225 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    It's not a war. In what sense is it a war?

    Diplomacy is an attempt to resolve an issue without violence. So Hamas cannot give "diplomatic reasons" for launching an attack, as it's a contradiction in terms.

    Hamas gave a bunch of reasons for the October 7th attack. One was that they wanted to disrupt the attempts to normalise relationships between Israel and other Arab countries. Sort of reverse diplomacy. Is that the kind of thing you meant?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,403 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    The same groups that won't allow Irish signage on the island of Ireland want hebrew signs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    The Israeli economy is on life support because of the war and a World that sees doing business with a Genocidal State is really not a good look.

    But isn't it odd that Israel continues their Genocide in the face of being bankrupted. Seems to indicate the level of entrenchment of violence in the psyche really is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,449 ✭✭✭Cordell


    It is a war in the sense of what wars are, that is two or more enemy combatants engaged in warfare.

    And about Hamas, don't tell me, tell to the one who apparently doesn't find any motive or reason for terrorists to do terror.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Victim blaming 101

    Using your logic, you must also agree then that the Israeli victims of Oct 7th were also casualties of war - a war they and their parents started in the preceding decades by dehumanising Palestinians in all the illegally occupied territories.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Why did they do October 7th attack?

    Many have speculated. Could be to undermine U.S brokered talks between Israel and Saudi Arabia that were going on at the time, cynical ploy to position Hamas as the main defender of Palestinians, possibly to provoke an Israeli overreaction and put the agenda of a free Palestine back in the public consciousness, maybe something to do with Iranian goals in the region (everyone says they are proxies).

    Nobody knows for sure, unless they are in Hamas.

    Either way, could be some of the potential reasons above, or it could be "cuz they iz Muzlimz".

    Why don't you look into it yourself and come back with the most likely reason?

     I don't care you find it offensive or lazy or god forbid it islamophobic,

    Just so I have this straight, in Cordell world, making up nonsense lies to dehumanize a people of a particular religion is wrong if it's against Jewish people, but fine and dandy if it's against Muslims?

    I'll tell ya something, as a self proclaimed independant thinker who gives us doses of "reality", you aren't painting a convincing picture.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,943 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    No way in hell I'd surrender to that lot

    "The Israeli prison system as a network of torture camps"

    “Welcome to Hell” is a report on the abuse and inhuman treatment of Palestinians held in Israeli custody since 7 October 2023. B’Tselem collected testimonies from 55 Palestinians held during that time and released, almost all with no charges. Their testimonies reveal the outcomes of the rushed transformation of more than a dozen Israeli prison facilities, military and civilian, into a network of camps dedicated to the abuse of inmates as a matter of policy. Facilities in which every inmate is deliberately subjected to harsh, relentless pain and suffering operate as de-facto torture camps."

    https://www.btselem.org/publications/202408_welcome_to_hell



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,449 ✭✭✭Cordell


    No, unlike most palestinians those civilian victims had nothing to do with any war.

    possibly to provoke an Israeli overreaction

    Yes, and they failed to achieve that, instead they got what any level headed observer would consider a very restrained response coming from a strong military and nuclear power. It could have been much worse.

    "cuz they iz Muzlimz".

    Why write it like this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Why write it like this?

    To highlight the ignorance of your statement. You should try writing it like that in future, at least then you won't be trying to come across like it's an intelligent and informed thing to say.

    As for your restrained response remark, is indiscriminately flattening a city of 2 million people, causing a famine, killing 20k children, and carrying out policies that virtually all humanitarian and international law experts have called a genocide, restrained? Who is it restrained compared to? The Hutus? Pol Pot?

    If Muslims are all blood thirsty lunatics, Cordell, what does a remark like that make you?

    Also, still waiting on a single shred of proof from you that all these organizations mentioned above are antisemetic. I'm sure your in depth investigations have yielded something by now?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    No, unlike most palestinians those civilian victims had nothing to do with any war.

    Bigotry 101.

    At least you're ticking all the boxes.

    If you believe the circa 1000 Palestinian children who didn't even reach their first birthday had something to do with the war, you should re-evaluate your moral compass, if you can find it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,449 ✭✭✭Cordell


    both of you seem to be unable to debate without personal insults, sadly a much too common trait among palestine supporters / hamas apologists.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    The irony of this post that specifically uses name calling in it, you couldn't make it up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Who are you calling a Hamas apologist? I don't excuse violence against innocent people and haven't done in a single post. You, on the other hand, are almost incapable of posting without doing it.

     I don't care you find it offensive or lazy or god forbid it islamophobic

    Above is a quote from you. Funny you couldn't care less if anything you say is offensive, but are v thin skinned when your ignorant comments are called out.

    Which is it "can dish it out but can't take it" type personality, or someone looking for a convenient dodge?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,477 ✭✭✭trashcan




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Perfectly happy to debate with you - but your posts indicate bigotry and victim blaming. Do feel free to reject those assertions and the reasons why.

    And as others have said, you might also dispense with the personal insults. I most certainly am not a Hamas apologist as my posting history clearly indicates.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,854 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Anybody who makes excuses for a group of people who deliberately starve and massacre civilians is either a fascist or a troll and neither of these are people worth arguing with

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,221 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    I sussed that poster out a while back, he/she is a zionist shill and is best ignored



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,150 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Google has a disturbingly close relationship with Israel. Not to encourage paranoia or anything but…many IDF veterans from, say, Unit 8200 have senior posts in the company.


    Virtually no revelation would surprise me in that regard:

    When Google and Amazon negotiated a major $1.2bn cloud-computing deal in 2021, their customer – the Israeli government – had an unusual demand: agree to use a secret code as part of an arrangement that would become known as the “winking mechanism”.

    The demand, which would require Google and Amazon to effectively sidestep legal obligations in countries around the world, was born out of Israel’s concerns that data it moves into the global corporations’ cloud platforms could end up in the hands of foreign law enforcement authorities.

    If either Google or Amazon provides information to authorities in the US, where the dialing code is +1, and they are prevented from disclosing their cooperation, they must send the Israeli government 1,000 shekels.

    If, for example, the companies receive a request for Israeli data from authorities in Italy, where the dialing code is +39, they must send 3,900 shekels.

    If the companies conclude the terms of a gag order prevent them from even signaling which country has received the data, there is a backstop: the companies must pay 100,000 shekels ($30,000) to the Israeli government.

    Both Canada and the US have the same dialling code. I presume that would be clarified in some other way.

    In plain language, Google and Amazon agreed to disclose information to Israel they are not legally permitted to disclose. There’s the consciousness of guilt here and of impunity. They had the gall to formally agree to this because they knew they would never have to answer for it.

    Post edited by Ardillaun on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,136 ✭✭✭Big Ears


    Never before have I see a ceasefire turned on and off with the frequency of a tap.

    it seems they want the optics of a ceasefire, but none of the reality of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,730 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    Hamas set up rocket launchers etc in civilian areas to fire at Israel. Israel fires back and it's Israel's fault Gazan civilians are killed. That's a funny logic.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,730 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    Since neither of us are on the ground we'll never know but this has a whiff of Israel fires a rocket at a hospital and kills people. O wait, it was actually a Hamas rocket falling in a car park …let's blame Israel anyway.

    It's really odd the stance that pro Gazans take. Everything Israel says is a lie.. everything Hamas says is the gospel truth and not to be disbelieved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,827 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I guess Bibi may be gone as soon as there is a possibility of even an uncertain peace lasting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,150 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    The problem is that Israel doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt at this stage. Its leaders have systematically concealed the truth for years and it will take decades to figure out some of their crimes in this conflict. But, yes, Hamas are awful too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,132 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Why are Israel refusing to allow independent journalists to report from Gaza DayInTheDog?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Everything Israel says is a lie

    The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Israel (IDF, Govt. etc.) has proved time and time again that it is an inveterate liar.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,150 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Post edited by Ardillaun on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    They've been doing the same in Lebanon for months. Its the Israeli MO.

    They even have the neck to attack UNIFIL troops - IDF had a face like a smacked arse when UNIFIL troops shot down their drone. So they dropped a grenade on UNIFIL positions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    A couple of interesting reports from Haaretz.

    Seems the Red Cross are now permanently banned from visiting Palestinian POWs. No journalists, no Red Cross - what is Israel hiding? Everything.

    IDF is now investigating the anal rape of a prisoner in Sde Teiman - or rather, the leaking of the video - they couldn't give two hoots about investigating the perpetrators - just the snitches. Caught with their pants around their ankles yet again…

    Defense Minister Israel Katz signed an order banning the Red Cross from visiting thousands of Palestinians being held in Israeli prisons under the Law on the Imprisonment of Unlawful Combatants. Katz said that the visits "constitute a serious harm to state security," after receiving a professional recommendation from the Shin Bet.


    The IDF has launched a criminal probe into last year's leak of a video showing the alleged abuse of a Gazan detainee at the Sde Teiman military facility, which led to the arrest of five soldiers. The investigation reportedly focuses on suspicions that the video was leaked by associates of the military advocate general.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Seems "encouraging serious violence against Palestinians" is a no more than a slap on the wrist - even for a Rabbi.

    Israel Police arrested Rabbi Menachem Ben Shachar, considered to be a religious authority among far-right hilltop youth, and another settler, on suspicion of incitement to violence and racism.

    According to a police statement, the two are suspected of "spreading extremist and inciting messages that encourage serious violence against Palestinians." Both were released after questioning under restrictive conditions.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Of the 101 Gazans killed yesterday (35 were children), the IDF appear only to admit to 30 of them being "terrorists". Seems they're OK with a 66% civilian kill ratio.

    The IDF said it reimplemented the cease-fire agreement with Hamas at 10:00 A.M. on Wednesday after striking "30 terrorists holding command positions" in Gaza in response to Hamas militants opening fire on Israeli forces near Rafah on Tuesday, adding that it will uphold the cease-fire and "will respond firmly to any violation of it." On Tuesday, IDF Chief of Staff Eyal Zamir said that "the war is not yet over" and that "if Hamas fails to uphold its commitments, it will carry the responsibility and pay a heavy price."



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