Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Northern Ireland 2125?

Options
1121122124126127188

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    Nothing to do with personal design likes. Ask any graphic designer. Or indeed any person with common sense.

     if you glance at a sign here in the Republic, your eye is attracted to the English language words, which is correct as that is what everyone speaks and understands. That is because of the size / font / capital letters or not.

    images (1).jpg

    Up North, the signs feature same case letters etc. Do you know the difference between upper case and lower case?

    images.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,321 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A graphic designer deals with the hierarchy of information.

    The two design solutions chosen here meet challenge in different ways.

    If 99% of people are not confused the issue is yours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    Most people do not like the new signs up North, that is why they are controversal.

    In the example below, are you denying your eye is attracted to the English language words first?

    images (1).jpg

    Now can you imagine if trying to drive past, or stopped at a junction, trying to decipher those 23 words if they were all the same size / font / capitals/lower case / italics. Say 5 of the signs below all together.

    images.jpg

    Some things we do better in the Republic than in N. Ireland. Signs are one of them. But here they are just signs, not meant to taunt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,321 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    At this point you need to present some data on the amounts of people 'confused' or who don't like these signs.

    In both signage styles your eye can easily sort the information. That's the goal of any designer and there are different ways of doing that. The world of urban design would be very boring if there wasn't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    You are factually wrong. The size , use of capital letter / lower case, and italics make the English language names on the sign below more noticeable than the Irish language version. There is a very good reason it was done that way.

    images (1).jpg


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,321 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Look, maybe study graphic design paying particular attention to handling the hierarchy of information.

    Your eye will be drawn to the info it is looking for and will easily sort it out if the design is good.

    The design in both examples are perfectly acceptable and will only draw the ire of those who think some of the info should not be there in the first place.

    QED in your case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭csirl


    How many pages of arguments have we had about signs in Belfast? Going round and round in circles. Dont see the relevence to this thread - which is about 2125.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    Wrong. I have shown it to two graphic designers / people qualified in visual arts.

    As expected, they agreed the size , use of capital letter / lower case, and italics make the English language names on the sign below more noticeable than the Irish language version. There is a very good reason it was done that way.

    images (1).jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,321 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yes, the argument is over.
    Signs will continue to go up across NI.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Well i have no problem if NI does it the exact same way as the Republic. But not having dual signs in NI when neighbouring jurisdictions do is my issue. Given the history of the apartheid governance of NI pre the GFA, it is imperative they treat the indigenous language with the same respect as neighbouring jurisdictions. If they dont and are different to suit the bigots then the jurisdiction still in 2025 reeks of bigotry at governance level ilike it did pre the GFA



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Absolutely. The best way out of this social mess is social intergretation. If there had been intergratation from the beginning there wouldn't have been this mess. But london never really cared to step in and every unionist party and SF up untill recently supported sectarian divides.

    With the fall of religion is helping. Mixed marriages went from less than 5% pre 98 to around 20% today and still growing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    So long as Catholic kids are sent to Catholic schools it’s going to be difficult to integrate. Traditionally the Catholic Churches insistence that kids of mixed marriages must be brought up catholic caused a lot of difficulties but nowadays many people are ignoring the rules and wishes of the catholic church and people are integrating better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,321 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The 2022 Integrated Education Act was supported by Alliance, SF and SDLP. Notable during debates was that SF allowed their minds to be changed on it.

    The Bill was not supported by UUP, DUP and TUV and the DUP and TUV tried to use the Petition Of Concern to block it. they failed.

    That still rankles with them and the latest manifestation of their resistance was this 'win' in the courts.

    The opinion of those educators and parents are notable though.

    It was claimed in court that the minister ignored the reality that much of the work to meet the "reasonable numbers" requirement can only be done once a school is approved for the change in status.

    It was also alleged that Givan had failed to take into account a number of relevant factors, including: the advice of the Education Authority and officials; the demographic realities facing schools seeking to transform; and the data showing growth of transformed schools.

    Even when the will and desire is there to integrate there is always a member of the belligerent DUP to block it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    Did they not block it because there was not the amount of Catholics in Bangor to make Bangor Acadamy fully integrated? The huge amount of elephants in the room are all the Catholic schools in N.I., so sign of them becoming more integrated or dropping religion from the curriculum. The state and mostly protestant schools have little or no religion in the classroom by comparison.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,321 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And typically you blame the blameless here.

    If you introduce an act to promote and encourage integration and the only block to that is a Unionist bloc and a Unionist pops up to block the expressed will of educators and parents to 'integrate' how in hell do you make a credible argument that it's the fault of the Roman Catholics?
    Like, here and in the UK, Roman Catholic ethos schools will always exist, as will Protestant ethos schools and Jewish ethos schools.

    Who is blocking Integrated Education in NI?…well the evidence has been presented above and it clear who is, at every turn. People can make their own minds up on that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    The state schools in N.I. generally do not push any particular sect of Christianity, but may have a broad Christian ethos. Not that much time is spent on religion.

    The Catholic schools however, to which most Catholics go, do very much push the Roman Catholic ethos.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,321 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Who tried to block the Integrated Education Act?

    Who, despite the wishes of the schools and parents used a clause in the las to block schools offering Integrated Education?


    You’ll get there if you do unbiased research.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    Those who know the facts do not need to do unbiased research.

    State schools / controlled schools are inclusive and promote diversity. They contain pupils of many different religions.

    Catholic schools are nearly all Catholic. They are educational establishments whose physical infrastructure includes holy statues, whose daily routine includes prayers and Gaelic sports. Fine, but do not say that is inclusive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,321 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Thd CC is entitled as it is everywhere else in these islands to have schools.

    They are not responsible for Integrated Education.
    Integrated Education is the solution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    Nobody said the CC was not entitled to have their own schools in N.I. However the fact remains schools would be mixed in N.I. if all the Catholics went to state and integrated schools instead.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,321 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Pesky taigs.

    If the people want Integrated Education who’s there to block it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    Schools would be mixed in N.I. if most or all Catholics went to state and integrated schools instead of Catholic schools. However Catholics are entitled to Catholic schools, where Roman Catholicism is the religion (only 1% of pupils there are Protestant), so the state funds that 100%.

    Those are the facts. Its a pity, but that how things are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,321 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Once again, in high-definition technicolour, you show how you have zero understanding of (or wilfully ignore) how the education system developed after the disaster of partition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    Unionists did not want partition. They wanted a United Kingdom of these islands. It was Republican violence which was responsible for the island getting divided and the catholic church took over here when the British left. N.I. escaped mother and baby homes, babies for sale to rich Americans, the Magdalene laundries etc and minorities increased in size there. Here, a lot of minorities left for obvious reasons, be they protestants, gays, jews etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,321 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Ok, Unionists are innocent of everything.

    Got it! 🙄



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 4,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ozymandius2011




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,222 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    What about them? I'd likely be one myself if living back in the North now.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 4,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    Would you accept many of them would fall into the category I talk about? The category of pro-Union ones, even if largely because some of them might be in public sector employment up there?

    And regarding SDLP votes, I recall over the years some polls showing up to 50% of SDLP voters undecided 25% in favour of a UI and 25% undecided. They tend to be more upscale economically than SF voters and maybe have more to lose if it goes wrong?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,222 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    It looks like you quoted the wrong post of mine to reply to then; most certainly a substantial number of APNI voters would favour remaining part of the UK.

    'Some polls over the years' isn't a particularly strong data driven argument that SDLP, who are an openly Nationalist party who regularly speak about the importance of Unification would attract a remotely comparable cohort who favour remaining part of the UK. I do agree with the socioeconomic comparison of their typical voter compared with SF and would expect on the average that they would scrutinise any proposal more thoroughly. I imagine this would manifest more strongly in the undecided vote than pro-Union vote outside of tactical votes that were made to block SF but would be better represented by APNI or UUP.

    'Some polls over the years' have shown a percentage of TUV voters who'd vote for Unification too.....I've never met one though.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,321 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The TUV and Bryson in an absolute slabber of bile today because the DUP had no choice but to make agreed appointments.



Advertisement
Advertisement