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Northern Ireland 2125?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,218 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    You claim to have, 'clearly demonstrated' it, Blanch.....yet you've dodged the question on whether someone in Fermanagh was speaking a native language the day before partition and an imported one the day after without changing a word they spoke?

    Language and dialects change over time, Ulster Gaeilge had already mostly superceded Fermanagh specific Gaeilge by the time partition occurred......because thats what happens with dialects. There was no time where no Irish was spoken in Northern Ireland and the dialect spoken there today has as much in common with a hundred years ago as the English spoken in London today does with that spoken a hundred years ago there.

    For how quickly you throw out accusations of sectarianism at others, not a single poster on here goes out of their way to try and demean and diminish the identity of the Irish in NI as you do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,125 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    He got to use the words 'extinct' 'died out' and @Francis McM lapped it up. Two fantasies satisfied.

    Pathetic carry on really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    where are these tri-lingual signs that you say are being rolled out? Evidence please? Unless of course you are fantasising again



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    The experts say that the varieties of Irish indigenous to the territory of Northern Ireland finally became extinct when the last native speaker of Rathlin Irish died in 1985.

    In any case, we all know there was no Irish language in schools in N.I. in the 1950s or 1960s for example. Maybe a few people learnt it as a hobby, who knows. If people want to pay for their hobbies, fine, more power to them. But those who force their hobbies on others, at taxpayer's expense, in order to taunt others, are destroying good community relations for their own bigoted sectarian agenda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,218 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    ....I literally said I didn't see an assault in the video, made it clear I was asking a genuine question and asked for it to be pointed out. You've quoted me pointing out that some of the band members tried to calm it down as the judge commented and also that it wasn't grounds for trying to ban the parade as some online commentary at the time was pushing.

    £850 fine, justice served I suppose, well done!

    When I disagree with your spin on events, I'm quite comfortable calling it out directly rather than feigning ignorance and presenting statements or commentary under the veneer of questions, that is more your own style.

    Your gloating about Soldier F is noted without comment as that is all it is worth.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    in fairness to you, it was probably other posters who were blaming the band 100% - but you are also implying unsavoury reaction from band and couldn’t see much this obvious aggressor done wrong. The judge disagreed on both counts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,218 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    I wasn't implying a single thing, I very explicitly said exactly what I saw and asked you to point out what you were claiming in the video while adding the caveat that I did see band members calming it down and that despite some of the online ranting at time I didn't think it was grounds to sanction the parade.

    I said I couldn't see much because I couldn't see much in the video you posted. If it was other posters who made the point to sate your victim complex, perhaps you should've quoted them instead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,125 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A dialect is not a language so you were talking rubbish.
    Tell me this do you know why there was no Irish education in schools in the 40’s 50’s and 60’?

    The idiot one party state thought they could supress it but it resisted their bigotry and has come back stronger and will be everywhere because it belongs to us

    Unionists, not the smartest strategists in the stratosphere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Other users have answered the BS of your paragraph one.

    "But putting signs in to other persons areas".

    The signs are put on PUBLIC highways they are not put on private property. The jurisdiction is NI not a gerrymandered part of a city where you can get a bigot majority to come up with your own laws. You cant get a bigot majority in one small city like belfast even. Its iver for the bigots. You have to say part of one small city. The jurisdiction is small and shared hence why there will be homogeneous dual language signage witin the jurisdiction and the indigenous irish language speakers will feel welcome on all its public highways.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    "Irish education"? You mean education in Ireland? Did not the British government fund the catholic church to to teach in N.I., not their fault if they did not teach Irish. What was the time and money spent on?

    At least you are finally admitting it was dead then.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,125 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Is that head in the sand denial or just plain ignorance of what was done to Irish education in NI and how the one party Unionist state banned street names in Irish?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    There were other parties. However not surprising the unionist party got the most votes, because most people were unionists. If you doubt that, look at the border poll of 73 : fair voting and most of the electorate were unionists. Fact.

    Most people still want and use the English language. I have heard nationalists talking about the Falls road 1000s of times : never heard it in Irish?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,125 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And PIVOT when you don’t wish to confront the factual history of the one party bigoted sectarian statelet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    Everyone can harp back to wrongs committed in all jurisdictions 60 or 80 or 90 years ago. This thread is about 2125 N.I., or at least present events and where they are heading.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    But in 2025 when the Republic have dual signs as do jurisdictions in Britain why do you propose the NI jurisdiction to be different. Reeks of the exact same prejudice of the past. English only speakers in Wales or the Republic dont have problems with dual signs. Perhaps follow your own advice and stop living in the past. In 2025 indigenous languages are cherished and put on signs and normal people who aren't living in the past dont have issues with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It is only demeaning and diminishing the identity of the Irish in NI if you see the Irish language as a way of excluding others from Irishness. My version of Irishness is much more inclusive and I don't see the speaking of Irish as necessary for Irishness.

    My position on the Irish language as spoken in Northern Ireland doesn't change one bit of how people are Irish or not. I don't need the crutch of the language to determine Irishness, so there is no demeaning of identity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,218 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    'It is only demeaning and diminishing the identity if you don't view identity in the exact same way I do' isn't the super inclusive message you think it is.

    I see you're still dodging the question about the Irish speaker the day before and after partition, quite obviously because it sticks your whole point about, 'importing' the language on it's hole. Clearly demonstrated......aye, you've certainly clearly demonstrated something.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,125 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Ah no, discussion stopped because of the 'we don't want to talk about that' rule. 😁😁

    Regardless of your sudden squeamishness here are the facts of what happened.

    The new Northern Ireland government excluded Irish from schools, public life, and broadcasting.
    Irish was not taught in most state schools, and funding for Irish-language education was blocked.

    The 1923 Education Act (Northern Ireland) gave local authorities control over curriculum — they often banned Irish from being taught or refused funding to schools that wanted to offer it.
    Teachers who tried to promote Irish sometimes faced disciplinary action or loss of posts.

    Irish place names and bilingual signs that existed were removed or Anglicized.
    The government promoted a vision of Northern Ireland as exclusively British, with English as its only public language.

    BBC Northern Ireland gave little or no airtime to Irish programming.

    Irish cultural organizations (like the Gaelic League/Conradh na Gaeilge) operated, but with no government support, and often faced social stigma in unionist areas.

    Funding for Irish-medium education or cultural centres was virtually non-existent.

    The Northern Ireland Office (under direct rule from London) gave very limited support, mostly to avoid controversy and as still happens even here on boards.ie to avoid offending Unionists.

    After agreement in the GFA, Unionist parties, blocked or delayed Irish language legislation for decades, arguing it was divisive or political.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    The British government funded Catholic schools in N.Ireland in the 1950s and 1960s : there was nothing to stop them teaching some Irish if they wanted to but there was little or no interest. It is of no use to anyone once you leave the island or try to make a living. More important things to be learning but if Irish is your hobby, best of luck with it. Just do not insist everyone else learns it / needs it to pass the leaving, as happened here; needs it to get in to university, as happened here etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,125 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    More nonsense that the facts disprove.

    In 1922, the Northern Ireland government refused to fund Irish classes even when local school boards requested it.

    Most Catholic schools depended heavily on state grants — if they wanted to teach Irish, they had to do it without funding or approval.

    Irish was therefore often offered only as an extra-curricular subject, taught after school hours or by unpaid volunteers.

    The Council for Irish Education repeatedly petitioned the Ministry to allow Irish as a recognized subject; requests were ignored.

    Teachers who promoted Irish risked losing state recognition for their schools or losing their jobs.

    By the late 1920s, Irish had effectively disappeared from the mainstream school timetable, even in most Catholic schools.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Does the same apply in the republic? Are irish people who cant speak irish demeaned because there is dual signage? Are welsh people who cant speak welsh demeaned by dual signage too?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    This why if there is a UI and a federal system is chosen there has to a fresh start and new boundaries for the councils. The NI state history is absolutely toxic. It has to be put to the history books. Maybe could have a federal system on the 4 provinces. A fresh start.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    The reason many millions are being spent putting up dual language signage in PUL areas of Belfast is because Irish language speakers feel demeaned in they arrive in a street call Little Dog Street for example, it has to be called Sraid madra beag as well, even if 85% of the residents do not want that.

    Otherwise the poor little Irish speaker will feel demeaned and have his feelings hurt, cant be having that. I once saw a northerner arrive at the big sign for Dublin Airport, he felt demeaned and went home. No, that would not happen. The most important thing is to taunt the unionists and partitionists.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    So do you want every place name in NI just to have one name which would be the original name regardless of what language it was born in? Think carefully before answering.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    People who live in an street or road should be able to decide on what it is called. However, the world over, people usually leave names alone because it causes confusion if names are changed a lot, businesses have to update stationary etc.

    Incidentally, I heard one shinner say that businesses in N.I. will have to give the Irish address as well as the English language address on all stationary, websites, company written material etc, as not to do so will cause offence. So we are in to a Derry /Londonderry thing for all streets and roads in N.I. Where will it all end?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,125 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Maybe in their quest for the same language rights as everywhere else they should react the way Unionists/Loyalists do when faced with living in the normal conditions people everywhere else live in?

    image.png image.png image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,125 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    NOBODY is changing the name. Fallacy after fallacy after fallacy.

    businesses in N.I. will have to give the Irish address as well as the English language address on all stationary, websites, company written material etc

    What 'shinner' said this?

    More smearing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It doesn't matter when and how they imported the dialect, it wasn't native to that region.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    A federal system will have to recognise the existing border to have any chance of swinging the middle ground in Northern Ireland.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,125 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




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