Israel/Palestine Thread

It was interesting that not many from RTE mentioned that Hamas were cleaning shop in house in Gaza by executing people on a whim.

And folks think these people are the good guys.

Ita crazy israel claimed Hamas was defeated in September 2024. I dont think the current Israeli government wants the fighting even though the peace deal seems the surest way for Hamas to be successfully removed.

No, no. A poster linked to an Iranian propaganda site with an article. It's defintely true.

So? You think they withdrew from Gaza in the expectation that nothing would improve? My understanding is that there was meant to be a peace process, and that the whole point of that peace process, from Israel's POV, was that the rockets would stop. Is that wrong?

And yes, it was a democratic election by the standards of the region (the US was accused by Hamas of trying to influence the election in favour of the PA, so I'm not sure I'd be 100% sure that Jimmy Carter is a completely independent observer, but it's clear that whenever a US president says something that suits you, you're going to cite them!) But sure, compared to other Muslim countries in the Middle East, it was pretty good, and was definitely a reflection of how popular Hamas was among Gazans.

Because the reality is that despite the balance being pushed down in favour of the PA, Hamas won a clear majority. That they immediately murdered their opponents in order to ensure control just shows that neither the PA nor Hamas are actually all that interested in democracy.

The blockade happened in 2007, after Hamas seized control, and was triggered by the EU withdrawing from their role in the Rafah border crossing. So how is Israel responsible for that? Surely it's more the EU's fault? What Israel did was respond to the EU's departure as a result of Hamas' violent takeover, in a way that Israel hoped would ensure their citizens' safety.

ok so I assume that for you, Hamas are among the most honourable gentleman one could ever hope to encounter, 100% truthful, can back up all of their actions as being completely humane, justified and honest. Any allegations that they are bloodthirsty terrorists whose only aim is to exterminate the Jews is completely slanderous? Rape is resistance, etc etc etc

Did they do this by occupying Israeli lands and colonising it?

Oh wait, sorry.

Interesting that you can't see a difference in overthrowing an unpopular leader who has been democratically elected and overthrowing a military group that's been in power without elections for 2 decades that launched a disastrous war against their bigger neighbour, a war that they could not possibly win.

But FWIW there were protests against Netanyahu the whole summer before October 7th. Many Israelis believe that this was taken as a sign of weakness by Hamas, and helped lead to the decision to attack on Oct 7. Whatever about that, it seems likely to me that Hamas wanted Netanyahu to stay in power, and were in fact afraid of him being replaced by a more moderate leader - because what Hamas want is war with Israel, and for ordinary Gazans to be sacrificed on the altar of "Jihad" against the very existence of Israel. The last thing they want is a peaceful settlement. As they are currently demonstrating.

You say the Palestinians have no interest in democracy. They participated in a free and fair election in Gaza and Israel refused to accept the result and imposed sanctions and later a full blockade.
Israel aided Fatah, yet again stirring internecine violence between Palestinians as they continue to do so now by arming criminal gangs.

"A war that they could not possibly win" — but a war in which it was seemingly necessary to tackle this force that had no chance of victory by flattening Gaza, slaughtering tens and thousands of people, and injuring who knows how many. And now that Israel has once again proven to the world that it must defend itself against obliteration by the people who have no chance of obliterating them — by obliterating those defenceless people and their homes — I guess we should now expect that Gaza will become a model of functioning administrative government and a cohesive society that has in no way been affected whatsoever by what they have just endured and continue to endure in the post-apocalyptic hellscape that is left of their city.

In any event however, the real point I was getting at was that I think it would be reprehensible for Hamas to attack Israel and kill civilians in the process — either deliberately or attacking military targets with such reckless disregard for civilian life that it cannot be divorced from murder — and for anyone to then claim that the Israeli populace's acquiescence and lack of overthrowing Netanyahu made them complicit, fair game or at least sad but unavoidable collateral.

I apply the same thinking to the people of Gaza, which I presume should not be controversial.