Israel/Palestine Thread

Yeah, maybe let's not go there

The UK seems to be in a very bad place with freedom of speech laws and the right to protest. People being arrested and charged for even holding a placard or waving a flag that is supposedly illegal. Thankfully we appear to have avoided going down this route in Ireland.

No, they didn't always return home. That is patently false. The Jewish population of Palestine in the late C19th was less than 0.5 of the Worldwide Jewish population. Before Zionism, there was no great movement back to the region of mandatory Palestine. 2000 years and the population was miniscule, about 20,000 people.

I would think the desire of a people to have a land on which they have lived uninterrupted for centuries and centuries takes precedent over the desire of people who have not lived on a land for 2000 years. That should be obvious to anyone who doesn't just buy into ideological guff.

On the whole row over Maccabi hooligans being banned for the game i see Villa travel to Spurs on Sunday, If you dont know Spirs have a large Jewish following so it will be interesting to see the reception Villa and their fans get from the Spurs fans.

Anything so that they can feel safe W!

Saw this this morning which made me laugh...

Azelia Banks (hardly an intellectual powerhouse) but who's been shilling for Israel for a while now has turned pro-Palestinian while visiting. Turns out the Israelis are a little racist...

It's interesting that you cite MSF as a pillar of respectability, whose word should be taken as gospel on all issues.

Here's a former General Secretary giving his opinion on them as they operate now.

"Well, it would have been impossible at the time when I was secretary-general of MSF to be as biased as MSF — Doctors Without Borders — is now in Gaza. We were defining ourselves as a neutral, impartial and humanitarian organization

I think now MSF in Gaza is really taking the side [of] Hamas and against Israel.

Destexhe acknowledged that to operate in Gaza, MSF has to work with Hamas because the terror group has control over "all civil society and all the medical facilities" in the enclave. He said operating alone would have been impossible during his tenure as secretary-general and that the organization would have said it could not work with "a totalitarian and terrorist organization."

"The only thing that MSF can do is to say, 'No, we don't want to be part of this. We have to quit Gaza. And we don't want to become accomplices with a terrorist organization like Hamas,'"

He recalled earlier moments when MSF prioritized ethics over presence, such as when it pulled out of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, a decision made during his tenure as secretary-general.

In 1994, during the Rwandan genocide, part of the organization made the choice to leave because it thought staying would only legitimize the violence that was taking place.

The reality here is that all these organisation operating in Gaza have skin in the game. They are not independent branches of any particular organisation operating in Gaza.

They are, instead, a Palestinain branch, populated by Palestinians.

As we all know, 42% of Palestinians would vote for Hamas if there was an election tomorrow.

Therefore, logically, there is a 4 in 10 chance than any given employee is either Hamas or Hamas affiliated.

In any workplace if 40% of the workforce are aligned ideologicaly with the terrorist organisation who run the place,where do you think the power resides? With the 40% or the 60%?

Where have the police said they are concerned that the Muslim community will attack Maccabi fans?

Did you make that up or can you proof source where the police have said that?

Well, I posted it a good few times, but as usual, it was ignored by everyone on here because you all want to believe that the Palestinians are not a radicalised nation committed to Islamic Jihad against Jews.

It's from the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PSR) in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip between 1-4 May 2025, so there's no screaming 'Hasbara' to wriggle your way out of this. It's Palestinians interviewing Palestininans.

Here are a few doozies to whet your appitite.

Point 4 is the most revealing. Given the choice or disarming Hamas or continuing with the 'Genocide', it apppears a full 85% of Palestinians would prefer to continue having their children 'Genocided', rather than poor auld Hamas being forced to give up their means of killing Jews.

1: If new legislative elections were held today with the participation of all political forces that participated in the 2006 elections, 62% say they will participate in them, and among the participants in the elections 43% say they will vote for Hamas.

2: 40% (compared to 43% seven months ago) believe that Hamas is the most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people today.

3: When asked whether it supports or opposed the eviction of some Hamas military leaders from the Gaza Strip if that was a condition for stopping the war, 65% said they oppose it.

4: When asked whether it supports or opposes the disarmament of Hamas in the Gaza Strip in order to stop the war on the Gaza Strip, an overwhelming majority (85% in the West Bank and 64% in the Gaza Strip) said it is opposed to that.

https://pcpsr.org/en/node/997

Source for this?

As we all know, 42% of Palestinians would vote for Hamas if there was an election tomorrow.

I was waiting for this elusive proof that all these dozens and dozens organizations are antisemetic. Now let's see...

That person you mentioned was surely secretary general for MSF, and not the general secretary, responsible for taking calls, booking meetings rooms and keeping the paper clips stocked up?

Even still, people in organizations are entitled to their opinions, and it shouldn't put the whole organisation in doubt. Some of this lads other opinions are:

“Every day, the country is shaken by an incident related to Palestine, the Islamisation of society, or antisemitism — three elements linked together.”

So while he quite rightly believes antisemitism is a thing, the conflates with the "Islamisation of society". Odd, it seems to me Europe was quite rampant with antisemetism before the Muslims showed up. Paradoxically though, he doesn't believe Islamophobia is a real thing:

“Islamophobia is a militant concept invented by Iranian mullahs to forbid criticism of Islam. I’m shocked that this term has spread so widely.”

Source:

https://www.levif.be/belgique/alain-destexhe-lislamophobie-nest-quune-manipulation/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Islamophobia being a made up construct is convenient for this guy, because he has also said, referring to Muslims

“If you want to become Belgian and European, you must leave behind part of your cultural heritage"

He is noted here for hive minding all Muslims, and spreading panic due to the proliferation of headscarves in Belgium

https://getthetrollsout.org/monthly-roundup/april2018?utm_source=chatgpt.com

In the below article he makes the below claims

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/15264/europe-hostility-israel

The EU, however, in its official statements, maintains the fiction that Palestinians in Gaza and elsewhere are "refugees"

UNRWA is a politically-oriented organization that contributes to perpetuating the Palestinian refugee problem and the narrative of the so-called "right of return," the goal of which is, in fact, the destruction of Israel.

There are many more like this, you get the picture.

So to my mind, you haven't proved antisemetism in MSF, you have merely highlighted that it's former general secretary was Islamophobic, and put out all the same talking points we read on this thread by his idealogical brethern.

And again, MSF is but one organization here. There are dozens and dozens and dozens more.

But what I don't get is why you will try (and fail) to dig through these organisations to somehow confirm the bias you already have, and not maybe visit whether the clear bias you have is a tenable and a realistic one to hold?

People can go here and read the site for themselves instead of listening to the sheep's version of things which is always slanted.

https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/997

He was secretary-general for 4 years. Makes his opinions on MSF a lot more qualified than yours.

Of course you ignore my point that it's all Palestinians in Gaza in these organisations command structures.

And that on average, 1 in 4 of them are hamas supporters.

Regarding how many? For every organisation you have I have a dozen more.

You have 3 people writing a UN commissioned report, already debunked.

I have the UN refusing to endore that report by not making it official.

I'm the one who posted this link for everyone to see.

4 times at this stage.

There's no slant.

It's all there for everyone to see.

Which of these 4 statement are slanted and why?

1: If new legislative elections were held today with the participation of all political forces that participated in the 2006 elections, 62% say they will participate in them, and among the participants in the elections 43% say they will vote for Hamas.

2: 40% (compared to 43% seven months ago) believe that Hamas is the most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people today.

3: When asked whether it supports or opposed the eviction of some Hamas military leaders from the Gaza Strip if that was a condition for stopping the war, 65% said they oppose it.

4: When asked whether it supports or opposes the disarmament of Hamas in the Gaza Strip in order to stop the war on the Gaza Strip, an overwhelming majority (85% in the West Bank and 64% in the Gaza Strip) said it is opposed to that.