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Israel/Palestine Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭SeanW


    First of all, Bibi's version has very little chance of becoming reality. Secondly, Israel, with or without the Disputed Territories is < 1% of the MENA region. Even if they took all of what they claim, > 99% of the MENA region would be free for Islamic and Arabic states (with the exception of Iran which is Persian-Islamic). Even those to the Right of Likud have no issue with this.

    By contrast, the Jihadis and the leftists want to get rid of the only Jewish state so that 100% of the MENA region is Islamic.

    To be clear, I do not agree with Likud that there should only be Israeli sovereignty, they should be open to some kind of two state solution, or at least not totally opposed.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,041 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭SeanW


    No, unfortunately we have our fair share of dipsticks like Victor Orban and Tucker Carlson who are in the tank for the Kremlin. Conservatives in the mould of Ronald Reagan would have no hesitation standing with Ukraine, and many do so.

    I think activism for Ukraine is more a case of decent people all over the political spectrum vs. gobsh**es and crooks.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Simone Biles couldn't compete with the gymnastics that goes on in your head.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭Lawlesz


    ”First of all, Bibi's version has very little chance of becoming reality.”

    …He says after Israel kills 65,000 (God knows what the final total will be once bodies are pulled from the rubble) while Hamas have killed less than 1,500.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    I support Ukraine and Gaza because im not a hypocrite. Russia and Israel are the same. It doesn't matter who their allies are. Their actions matter. They each want to see a smaller weaker country destroyed and take their land. But at least the Ukraine have a military and Russia are getting sanctioned. That is the disparity here with Gaza.

    If it wasn't for the Ukrainian army and western support, I have no doubt Russia would be doing to Ukraine what Israel is to Gaza



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,642 ✭✭✭dePeatrick


    IMG_0955.png

    This is the type of scumbag that we are dealing with!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,658 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    I couldn't tag you so I'll just sorta hijack this to ask was it you that asked me about the difference between Hamas and Doghmush because I found it curious same as you (if it was you that found the two Sunni Islamic groups fighting) and have done more reading up since to try to understand?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    The refusal by Israel to recognize a Palestinian state is the tip of the iceberg; other more basic rights of Palestinians are abused every day by Israel, including property rights in the West Bank. What possible justification is there to steal the land of Palestinian farmers there? Netanyahu’s intent is clear and has been spelled out by the likes of Bennett: hem the Palestinians in to tiny, powerless, wretched Bantustans in the West Bank and then ‘encourage’ them to leave.

    BTW the Palestinians are culturally Arab and speak Arabic but they are ethnically distinct from peninsular Arabs. Lumping them all in together is inaccurate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,120 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    I think the Ukraine conflict and the Gaza conflict cross traditional left/right ideologies.
    Either one is opposed to invasion and occupation and for the rights of all people or one is not.

    I don’t see how on one thread posters can denounce the Russian barbarity of missile attacks on apartment buildings and on the same day in a different thread defend the Israeli missile attacks on apartment buildings.
    There seems to be much less hypocrisy on the left, in opposing both occupations, than on the right. Where we see figures like Lindsey Graham welcome the indictment of Putin as an important moment for international justice but claim the same court’s indictment of Netenyahu has no legitimacy etc.

    Maybe some are motivated purely by the arms industry lobby.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Yup it was me, and I genuinely appreciated the explanation, and found it interesting. Im not sure why it was curious though?

    My opinions on this conflict have absolutely nothing to do with terrorist groups in Gaza or the internal politics of Israel, or Islam or Judaism. I know very very little about them all. It may sound ignorant, but I don't need to know because whilst that stuff is important to many, it is irrelevant to me as this has all been done before in every other colonial expansion I have ever known about. They all have their own intricacies and politics, but these things all genuinely follow a similar pattern.

    This has the same dehumanizing of the victims, the same bullsh*t reasons to kill them, and all the same illogical nonsense to justify the taking of land and the removal of people on it.

    Their politicians are telling us what they are doing, and we can see them doing it. There are hundreds of examples which can't be explained by this being purely a defensive war.

    It's the powerful killing the weak, radicalising their population to accept it and carry it out (many polls show this), whilst selling it to all that the weak are the threat to them (despite a 98% / 2% kill ratio). I thought we in the west had moved on from this and were too educated to accept it again, naively on my part.

    I read your response on the Jihadis in Palestine and thought it was well thought out and knowledgeable, and that some of the posters went down hard on you. Everyone in here has their backs up.

    Was clear to me you had some knowledge and integrity in your post. Likewise, it's easy to spot nonsense and lies being posted by others, always topped off with a nice dose of antisemite/terror supporter jibes when their illogical position is challenged (awful slurs imo).

    They are easy to spot and follow the same pattern - lazily referencing WW2, how barbaric Gazans are, the Romans, how civilians are all collateral damage, release the hostages and this will end, or how antisemetic we all are for criticizing thousands of civilians being butchered. I react pretty strongly to those posters.

    But thanks again, good when the thread can inform and have a bit of respect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    Everything for the last 75+ years is about ethnic cleansing. The genocide is just for fun. Donald needs to be careful or he could go from hoping for the Nobel peace prize to the Hague!

    Donald Trump says he will consider approving Israel to resume military action if Hamas refuses to uphold its end of the ceasefire deal.

    Speaking to CNN, the president says Israeli forces could return to the streets of Gaza "as soon as I say the word".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    Israel is a mentally sick nation, if they were a person they would be locked up because they are a danger to humanity.

    Humanity and Palestine will prevail.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭wildgreen




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Israel is a mentally sick nation

    Absolutely no antisemitism here, you see, it's the nation of Israel, not the jews.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    There is common ground among the Nazis and Zionists in genocide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,680 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Everything Bibi has ever done has been bad for the Palestinians. Very bad, mean and cruel. It doesn't matter the size of any nation if another is intending and acting to make it smaller and keep what they have stolen for themselves. The rest of the region and what it consists of is just whataboutery.

    There might not be Jihadis around now if it wasn't for Israeli actions, aggression and ill-treatment of its neighbours. Yes they seem to react to what Israel is doing. I don't believe that Israel will ever change or give land back, so I expect that the aggression against them will probably never stop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    Ah, the terrorists, Israel, is still nervously beating up old men after binding their hands and legs.

    Jailed Palestinian leader Marwan Barghouti sustained rib fractures after being beaten in Israeli prisons, the Prisoners’ Media Office said Wednesday, Anadolu reports.

    The Hamas-run office said on Telegram that Barghouti was beaten by Israeli prison guards while being transferred from Ramon Prison in southern Israel to Megiddo Prison in the north in mid-September.

    The imprisoned leader lost consciousness and suffered a fracture in four ribs, it added.

    Barghouti, 66, a senior leader of President Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah group, is one of the most prominent and popular figures in Palestinian politics.

    He has been serving five life sentences in Israeli prisons since 2002 on charges related to the Second Intifada, which began in 2000.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    You do know how those offers from Israel came wrapped. It wasn't you have your country over there and we have ours over here. Israel had it framed that Palestine couldn't have its own military, the water supply to Palestine would be controlled by Israel, Israel would still control regions within Palestine, such as religious centres. I'm sure there were many other terms, but lets just say what Israel had proposed was just a crock of sh1t. But leaving that aside, who the hell does Israel think they are, they were gifted a country and the next thing their going outside their borders and dictating to their new neighbours how they can and can't live their lives.

    Its laughable that you talk about how poor repressed Israel is under an existential threat from a bunch of farmers with sticks, while they, a nuclear power with a state of the art armed army/air force is going through the motions of a genocide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Jews are not colonising Israel, they are just reclaiming their ancestral land.

    Arabs, on the other hand, they were a colonizing nation. Read a map.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,120 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    I take it you are supportive of the Comanche retaking Dallas?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,943 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    This may come as a shock but the "Arabs" are not some solid monolithic bloc.

    "just reclaiming their ancestral land" - bollocksology.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    I speak English. Does that make me or all Irish or Americans ethnically English? From what I can understand, Arabic is more like a group of languages at this stage. Like Jews, Palestinians are of mixed ancestry, partly Canaanite. The Muslim, Arab-speaking invaders from the South contributed to that ancestry but did not replace it entirely by any means.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    As I said before, 1.5 million years of human habitation in the Levant. Why do you argue that the couple of thousand years of Jewish rule in the area (if there ever was that, the place was always multicultural), is the natural order, and discount all the other people's and histories that resides in that place? Do you believe God gave it to them?

    Far more likely you have an irrational hatred of the people who actually live and have lived there (who are mostly Muslim now) and will jump on board with any old bollox to support somebody sticking it to them.

    I doubt you would dream of applying that logic anywhere else in the world as you know you would sound like a lunatic. Imagine we all became Atheist in the next 20 years (that's where it's going), and hoards of Irish American Catholics who never lived here came over in the millions to butcher us and reclaim Ireland for the church. You'd give em your house right?

    Also when you say Israel are "reclaiming their ancestral land", you are tacitly admitting this whole war is about taking the land of the Gazans, which is ethnic cleansing. Good man/woman yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    They were never gifted a country. They returned to their homeland . You really need to read some accurate history books.

    As for your water argument. Who supplies the water? It's nothing we don't see in other parts of the world with river sources starting somewhere else and the source country suddenly building a dam and those lower down being affected.

    So you think a bunch of farmers with sticks attacked Israel in 7 October. A fascinating rewrite of history there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    So you can't tell me where Palestine is then. Maybe is out west near Tir na Nog or east near Shangri-la.

    If all the world recognises it surely it's a physical place with borders, a government and an economy or perhaps it's only an idea in people's heads and they're as well off recognising tir na Nog as a state for all the validity it has.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    Palestinian military clarify that unidentified fourth returned body is an Israeli soldier.

    A leading source in the Palestinian Resistance confirmed on Wednesday that the body, which Israel claimed does not match any of its captives, is that of an Israeli soldier captured in an Al-Qassam Brigades operation in Jabaliya in May 2024, Al-Jazeera reported.

    The source told the news channel that in the process of capturing the soldier, he “died in a direct clash with an Israeli force that tried to invade the area at the time.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    It is south of Lebanon and north of Egypt on the eastern Mediterranean.

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    So it's Israel. Just like I thought. Wipe out the Israelis and we have our Palestinian state. I'm sure they'll go for that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,399 ✭✭✭✭Grayson




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