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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    surprised they haven’t gone with the training panelist’s again like before



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Did we though?

    The lack of game time given to Crowley (or any other alternative 10 ) meant that we left a completely gassed Sexton on the pitch in the QF when he should have come off after an hour, or he could/should have had a lot less minutes in his legs in the preceding games but we used him far more than we should have in those games because his back-up only had a handful of starts under his belt.

    As @aloooof says , delaying giving the younger guys experience carries forward to the 3rd/4th choice as well.

    We NEED to be going into the next World Cup with every player and their backup having 20+ caps with at least half of those being starts in meaningful games.

    I haven't looked exactly , but we likely have at most 30 games left until the next world cup excluding warm-ups , so time is NOT on our side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭johnh6767




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,981 ✭✭✭✭Pudsy33


    Edogbo, Gleeson, and Bolton kinda are as they are travelling to Chicago with the squad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    The concern here is around Casey specifically though - I think the worry is Casey won't be available for the NZ game potentially, so regardless of how much time he'd given Casey he was going to want more experience in the 3rd scrum half role here, rather than throwing Devine or Murphy or Gunne in.

    I don't see how giving more gametime to Casey previously has an impact on him carrying an injury now. I think Casey's injury is what has necessitated Blade's inclusion.

    It's not the selection I'd have made (I'd have gone for Ben Murphy).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,342 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I think it's possibly, at most, around 24?

    • 5 x2 seasons of 6 Nations games: 10
    • 4 x2 seasons of AI's: 8 (trend now seems to be to play 4 AI games, we've done it the last 2 seasons
    • Max 3 Summer Tests: 3
    • Max 3 RWC warm-ups: 3

    It doesn't leave us very much time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    It's odd to pick a player for their experience, when their recent experience is playing from the bench for their province. If a young lad is getting picked ahead of someone at club level, then they're the ones who need to get experience now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,342 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    As far as I'm aware, the upper-end of Casey's injury prognosis still has him back for the NZ game. He's an outside chance to play vs Leinster this weekend.

    Also worth mentioning, JGP's average number of minutes last season was 72 minutes.

    In that context I don't think it'd have been a huge risk to call up one of the younger guys ahead of Blade.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I don't entirely disagree, but Farrell's response would probably be he's not the one picking the team at the provincial level.

    Also - FWIW, Connacht have played two games this season and Blade started the first one at 9.

    I rate Ben Murphy really highly, but he picked a terrible moment to have one of his worst games in a Connacht shirt on Saturday night.

    Farrell will be confident that if Casey can't go v NZ, that Blade won't be overawed sitting on the bench given he came off the bench in Durban and did a good job. He doesn't have that confidence yet in the others.

    I still think some of them will get their chance over this series - guys like Tom Clarkson and Gus McCarthy weren't named in this original squad 12 months ago and both went on to feature in 2 games over that November.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Remains to be seen - but I fully believe the inclusion of Blade is down to injury concerns around Casey more than anything else. The statements around Casey's injuries have been pretty vague so far tbf.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    No arguments, and I like Blade a lot, he should've gotten a lot more caps over the years imo. JGP's age profile is a concern. I have doubts that he's going to maintain his standard of play through to the WC.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    1. He was never coming off no matter if Crowley had more experience or not
    2. He played so much in the other matches cause he's an absolute moron who got himself banned for the warmups.

    50 min against Scotland was his only game in 20 days. I dont think playing against Romania or tonga was the winning and losing of that NZ match. The biggest mistake by far in that sequence was from the fresh McCarthy. Though McCarthy himself belies the idea you need significant experience to be trusted.

    (Im still not remotely a fan of the squad)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,342 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Tthe injury updates Munster are giving out now are probably the most detailed in terms of return schedule I've come across from any club in recent seasons tbh….. we just look at things very differently, FTD.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Right, except this week's injury update said absolutely nothing about injured players at all, just launches into an irrelevant blurb about players playing AIL:

    And, the previous one, had Casey out for a period of 1-3 weeks. The upper end of that would only have him returning the actual week of the NZ game.

    The suggestion there are injury doubts about Craig Casey for the NZ game hardly seems outlandish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,342 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    "outlandish".

    I didn't suggest it was….. let's leave it...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 171 ✭✭cave_dweller


    Another underwhelming squad which seems to be prioritizing short term gain for long term pain. We have no chance to win the next world cup, and if it keeps going like this we'll be even further behind once the prep to 2031 begins. Farrell has done a lot of good things but should be moved on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    world cup seedings are set after the autumn internationals.

    nothing about that squad is worth arguing over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Granted Connors in injured for the time being but I'd have thought on form he is an able replacement for VDF, and he's 3 years younger.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,342 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I’d agree but the problem with Connor’s isn’t that he’s injured for the time being. It’s that he’s perennially injured.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,045 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    The seedings are set after these games but it's top 6 who are first seeds not top 4 so we would have to lose 3 of the 4 games and by more than 15 points in each game in order for us to drop out of top 6. It's madness not to experiment more with squad



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 616 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    You're probably 1-2 players away from what is going to be selected. I'll have Henderson all day every day ahead of Ahern or Murray in a game against NZ myself. Keenan being out probably makes it harder to pick Osborne at 12. But you've picked a team that is extremely close to what Farrell will pick.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    it’s not up to Farrell to give the younger players game time, he will take them on once they have had sufficient time at club proving themselves, and then the integration will be fast trekked. Look at what was achieved in a relatively short period in Lyon’s and many said it was their best coaching performance they had experienced. I agree with the couple of situations which seem odd due to age or an importance to choose the 2nd or 3rd for WC27 but even there the club performance will be crucial to estimate the next wave of talent. 6N will be an easier time to rotate accurately after the URC & EPCR campaigns are well underway



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,028 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I think Gavin would be a better 12 and Osbourne 13.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I don't think he is injured at present, he just hasn't played particularly well on his last few outings (he was poor enough v Bulls, and lucky to get away with a yellow for a high hit). Defensively he is as good a player as there is in Irish rugby, but the attacking side of his game isn't where it needs to be IMO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    And clearly building depth through the A fixtures


    ‘Whether it has been taking on the Maori All Blacks on the 2022 summer tour to New Zealand, playing the All Blacks XV that same year or England last February, Farrell has been keen to add more ‘A’ fixtures to the calendar in a bid to further strengthen his options.

    Spain are currently ranked 14th in the world, and Los Leones (The Lions) qualified for the 2027 World Cup earlier this year. Spain's qualification marked their second appearance at a (men’s) World Cup and their first since 1999.

    It is understood that Ireland ‘A’ could play their English counterparts again during next year’s Six Nations.’



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    In the South Africa squad for the Rugby Championship they had only 4 players that will be under 30 at the next RWC. They also have 11 players that will be over 34 at the next RWC, Kolisi, Etzebeth, Du Toit, Koch, Mostert, Mbonambi, Smith, De Klerk, Reinach, De Allende and Mapimpi. The following players will be 33 at the RWC - Marx, Louw, Pollard, Esterhuizen, Kriel and Kolbe. RG Snyman will be 32.

    I think the only squads that really are comfortable age wise is New Zealand and France. The rest have an age problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,059 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Mod Edit

    Warning issued.

    Post edited by ShamoBuc on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    for sure, I'm not calling for revolution. It's not just backing the younger guy for the sake of it,.id argue that in a lot of cases, they're simply playing better ball at the moment. It's the right pragmatic decision if nothing else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    South Africa are current RWC and RC champions, they're justified in keeping the old band together.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 171 ✭✭cave_dweller


    Touch a nerve, did I? I'm not trolling, just giving my opinion. I'm entitled to one just like everyone else. Some people are content with little short term victories and being perennial quarter final losers I guess. I'd rather we aim higher.



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