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Presidential Election 2025

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,710 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,890 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    sorry - I’ve mixed you up with a different poster (who uses same avatar)


    Blame the pints since rugby at 3 today



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Well its not a fully relevant poll, considering the timing involved. 2-7 October, so therefore its including 4 days when Gavin was still a candidate.

    Obviously he remains on the ballot, etc - but we really need a poll that begins after his official exit from the election cycle.

    With what we have, Connolly is still well out on front, and the gap has widened a bit, despite Humphreys gaining slightly. Large amount of undecideds remaining.

    It really is a crazy election, considering 3 candidates, and then reducing to only Humphreys and Connolly. Trying to track changes in support levels based on it is difficult. It doesnt take into account much of this weeks news cycle either.

    It remains Connollys election to lose. But id reserve judgement until we get a more reflective poll. They seem to be coming out quite slowly, but then the election itself remains rather muted.

    HH will need to get noticed, and make gains. In my honest opinion, we would need to see the gap close by a minimum of 5% on the next poll. Whether she hoovers in a lions share of Gavin voters, or some of the undecideds, she needs reduce the difference. If it remains 10+% in the next poll, its more or less done, unless there is sort of 'October surprise' analogous moment in the election.

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    You said it yourself "I watched the Vincent Browne show".

    You watched the spin not the original. You swallowed the line VB was selling on his TV3 show as did a lot of others who had it in for Labour in general and Rabbite in particular.

    Why bother with the truth when a lie is much more interesting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,710 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    But what did 'keeping it simple' mean in the specific context under discussion? Gilmore had given what would sound to an unbiased observer like an absolute line-in-the-sand commitment not to accept further cuts in child benefit. Rabbitte was saying that commitment was in practice hedged about with unspoken Ts & Cs regarding prevailing economic conditions.

    It's not quite saying "It's fine to make pre-election promises you have no intention of honouring" but I'm not convinced it's a whole lot better…



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭corkie


    Interesting that 'red c' poll and the two on boards AH & CA are aligned with approximately the same results?

    If you add up abstaining, spoiling and out of the country same figure as 'don't knows'!

    I queried some numbers the other day with the help of AI: -

    "If only 40% of electorate come out and vote in Ireland's president election and of that number if 16% spoil the vote what figures are we looking at?"

    image.png

    perplexity.ai pro query vs grok below with inflated numbers due deeper analysis of sources!

    image.png

    Probably been generous with turnout & spoiled percentages? Or even under estimating turnout?

    Have your say on the two linked polls? AH & CA

    @liamtech Thanks for your thoughts and analysis again.

    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." ~ George Santayana
    "But that's balanced out by the fact that it's a mandate not to do very much." ~ Prof. Eoin O'Malley



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    Right that is what the discussion was about.

    It's there for everyone to hear. They don't need Vincent Browne to tell them what it means.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭MFPM


    The fact that she cannot, and refuses to answer basic questions like "Is Russia a threat to European democracy", "Do you accept Putin doesn't want peace, he wants victory over Ukraine", etc, while completely disingenously both-siding the situation and ranting about NATO and military industrial complexes is an absurdly huge red flag for many people.

    I think you're confusing the relative importance you place on the matter in comparison to it's relative importance to others….Thus, there's a fair bit of disingenuousness here….

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,456 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    No you have watched the spin and swallowed it .

    Everybody else is out of step with you it seems .

    See editorial from prior to 2916 election in Irish Examiner ..

    Pointless election promises: Let’s not be seduced this time around https://share.google/NG3BfxjqgqOBUP1qS

    "We are prepared to believe election assurances, despite Pat Rabbitte’s cynical, but honest, mid-term reality check, when, challenged on broken promises, he admitted: “Isn’t that what you tend to do during an election?”"

    And here is another article about Broken Promises in elections which details the whole conversation in all the gory details ..

    Broken promises in a broken system - The Munster Express https://share.google/d2biRsdMoAHLbyXMr

    "For fear I’m accused of twisting Minister Rabbitte’s words, what follows is the infamous 69 seconds broadcast on ‘The Week In Politics’ just over a year ago.

    Pearse Doherty TD:

     “Do you actually have red line issues anymore?”

    Pat Rabbitte TD:

     “We, against all of the odds, protected core social welfare rates. That was a profound commitment…made under difficult circumstances…

    Sean O’Rourke (presenter):

     “Do you accept you’ve broken promises, clearly understandable and understood promises?”

    Pat Rabbitte: 

    “Well at this stage of the lifetime of the government, clearly we had to find money somewhere and clearly some of them are a breach of the promise. But as I said in the Dáil when the facts change, I change my mind – I don’t know what you do.”

    Sean O’Rourke:

     “What facts change?”

    Pat Rabbitte: 

    “The fact that the European economy…we couldn’t predict that two years ago that the European economy was going to be in recession.”

    Sean O’Rourke:

     “You could predict nothing with certainty two years ago…

    Pat Rabbitte: 

    “But that is the point. You can’t predict it with certainty.”

    Sean O’Rourke: “But you predicted with certainty that there’d be no cuts in Child Benefit if you were in government?”

    Pat Rabbitte: 

    “Well, the, eh, situation, eh, Sean is, the debate has run for a very long time about whether the best off people in our society should be in receipt of Child Benefit – and there is a report under the chairmanship of Ita Mangan completed, and…

    Sean O’Rourke:

     “Yeah, but you didn’t go into all that detail before the election; you kept it really simple: protect Child Benefit, vote Labour.”

    Pat Rabbitte: 

    “Yeah, well, I mean. bit isn’t that what you tend to do during an election?”   

    The speed at which Labour’s leadership disconnected themselves from public sentiment in the wake of coming to office was quite astonishing"

    That is what he said . Quite clearly not as he tried to spin it and Vincent Browne called it right and the public anger did the rest .

    Do you think every body who went before you is stupid and unable to read or judge what a person says without a pundit spelling it out for them ?

    You are insulting a whole group of people who heard those remarks , read in detail about them in the papers , saw his cringey attempt to back track and judged for themselves . And didn't vote for Labour again for the next 8 years .

    They lost the trust of the people , who lets face it , had no other reason to vote for them except they were more trustworthy than the other parties .

    And that is what I and a lot of other people who are yet undecided will do coming up to this election .

    And all the posting and punditry here and elsewhere won't make that process change especially when there is so much coverage and interviews of the candidates to come .

    Why take it secondhand from some guy who thinks he knows everything on the Internet when you can listen to a candidate talk for yourself .

    Not talking about anyone in particular here , of course .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,809 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Does her position on Ukraine really matter though? The government will be firmly in command of all aspects of foreign policy towards Ukraine and Russia, as well as how we handle Ukrainian refugees etc. Given that FF and FG are strongly in Ukraine's corner, I'm not sure we would see many controversies with a CC presidency regarding Ukraine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭Homelander


    Firstly, before I delve more in that issue, what's the source of that stat for comparison reasons?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭MFPM


    Indo poll last weekend, discussed at length here. That figure had been fairly consistent in political polls for quite a period of time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,822 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    HH has some neck, bouncing from being physically unable, to having a second wind to go flying around the world on presidential jaunts to palaces and state dinners.

    Less than a year ago………."I'll be 65 next year and if I ran again I'd be nearly 70 by the end of the next Dáil term and I'm just not physically able to keep going for that long”.

    Too full to finish her dinner, but has plenty of room for desert.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    For all the people who said they'd vote Heather because she would be more likely to sit back and just do the minimum (welcoming dignitaries, going to sports games) - how do you square this circle? Your candidate now wants to create new responsibilities for the office of president which could have actual tangible repercussions for this country.

    Do you really think Heather the not so great orator would be our best representative for trade missions?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    Well she's 'proposing' which is fine.

    Question is does she know her place, does CC know hers?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    She didn't want to run as a TD, it's a different and more demanding job than president..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmcc


    That SBP/RedC poll age breakdowns graphic only shows only the 18-34s and the 55+ groups. It does not include the 35-54 group which is 38% (according to the text) for Connolly and 24% for Humphreys.

    The sampling period (2-7th October) and the withdrawal of Gavin makes it a highly problematic poll. The article paints a very rosy picture for Humphreys that hinges on Gavin transfers from FF voters who may not vote. Transfers are never 100% as there are voters who only vote for a single candidate.

    Regards…jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,963 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN



    “The latest Business Post/Red C Poll has put Connolly on 36 per cent, Humphreys on 25 per cent and Gavin on 12 per cent. Some 27 per cent of voters were undecided.

    31% to 39% when Gavins votes redistributed

    And when undecided removed, it’s 56% to 44% in favour of CC
    .”

    My first thought is- it’s still a significant lead.

    Whilst the SBP highlights CC’s younger voters as a “risk”- I’m not so sure it is- there’s a unanimous young vote for CC and as we saw in the last general election, a considerable % of young voters came out to vote for SF- I see them coming out again to support CC.

    HH just doesn’t have the same following - the older voter demographic , if they come out on the day, will vote for her - and they outweigh the younger voter nearly 2:1- but I think we’ll see a lot of older voters staying away, simply because either their “man” isn’t running- or they don’t feel overly motivated by HH.

    Will the “undecided” play it cautious and vote HH? Personally I think they’ll just stay away- something is stopping them choosing one candidate over the other in a 2/3 horse race -I don’t think that will change in the next 10 days or so.

    It’s CC’s to lose



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    Put not your faith in opinion polls for they are false prophets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭MFPM


    Yeah, in fairness, in this two horse race all of the key media outlets are pro HH and certainly the SBP which as an aside has deteriorated significantly since McConnell took over.

    I see Coleman had the same column as last week just this week it's about HH not JG, clearly hasn't learned his lesson..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Proposing responsibilities that as of now do not exist. That to me seems more overstepping the role than anything Connolly has said about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmcc


    The problem isn't the analysis of the poll, it is with the data itself. The sample period is split over two major periods. The first is with Gavin as a candidate. Most of the data was, theoretically, collected in this period. The second is without Gavin as a candidate. This makes any conclusions drawn somewhat iffy because it is, in effect, two different polls rolled into one. The data from the first isn't distinguished from the second.

    Connolly does have a lead in the poll. The withdrawal of Gavin complicates matters because the DKs could change from the first period with Gavin as a candidate to the second period without Gavin. How many FFers may not vote because Gavin is not the candidate? Did RedC resurvey those who had selected Gavin before he dropped out? Gavin dropping out would have had an effect on the number of DKs if they had been resurveyed and some of the transfers to Humphreys would not appear if those Gavin votes became DKs. And it is the high % of DKs that is another problem. Voters are still deciding how they will vote.

    Regards…jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,879 ✭✭✭Bogey Lowenstein
    That must be Nigel with the brie...


    FF are becoming a bit of a joke and a non-entity at this stage. What was MM thinking throwing his support behind HH?

    They are in danger of being swallowed up by FG.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    Proposing responsibilities that as of now do not exist.

    If they did exist HH wouldn't be 'proposing'.

    if she thought she would have the power if elected she'd be promising not proposing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,963 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    “Voters are still deciding how they will vote.”

    In terms of the Gavin voters, yes. And there’s definitely a % of them that will go CC- at least 25% in my view.

    But given it’s just 3 candidates for this poll, I’m surprised at the number of undecided and I think while it might reduce in the next poll, it will still be a high enough % - for two candidates, that’s mad Ted.

    I think the “undecided” voters are essentially in the main, “not voting” - they will stay away in the main and if some do vote I don’t think they’ll influence the outcome in any significant way.

    Also, given CC’s significant lead, FF voters may well just stay at home in resignation that it’s a done deal. For those that do vote, likely a 70:30 split between HH and CC- slightly closing the gap but not by way enough.

    Even if HH starts to up her game, I think it’s too little too late - I wouldn’t put money on her blowing CC out of the water at the next RTÉ debate - but that’s probably what she’d need to do to get back in the race



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    FF have won more seats than FG in the dail in the last 2 elections, just because they're having a bad time of it in the presidential election doesn't mean they are a non entity and in danger of being swallowed up…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    Way to go in losing all credibility. So, we're supposed to believe now that the Nobel committee is in the habit of awarding the PP to neofascists? Goodnight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    New Red C poll. Conducted on October 2-7. Gavin withdrew on 5th

    So fully doesnt reflect the withdrawal.

    1st preferences

    Connolly 36

    Humphreys 25

    Gavin 12

    27% undecideds

    After transfers:

    Connolly 39

    Humphreys 31

    30% non transferable

    Post edited by Ozymandius2011 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,257 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    FF won more seats because of transfers, people who decided that if worst comes to worse they'd rather Micheal Martin as Taoiseach over Harris and McDonald that's how preferential voting works. You will find that in the next election FF will have an up hill battle to get those transfers and much like in Britain there will be a quite Zero Seat campaign or an No transfer campaign IMO and we will have a Left Unity Government with Mary Lou as Taoiseach.

    As for this presidential election FG don't need to worry about CC campaign it has only captured the imagination of those supporting her. Heather's campaign should be more worried about convincing her own voters to come out and vote.


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmcc


    There's another debate on RTE Radio 1 at 13:00 with David McCullagh.

    There does seem to be a sense of panic among Humphreys supporters. They had relied on the early polls without FF or SF having made a decision. In those early polls, Humphreys was doing well because it was only SocDems/PBP/Lab backing Connolly. Martin screwed up in trying to impose his mini-me Gavin on FF.

    Voters, other than party members, generally decide their vote in the last two weeks before an election. The problem for the simplistic analysis pushed by the media is that most of the voters are not party members. Some of those voters will show up in the DK %. The problem with the two recent RedC polls is that they had major events occurring in the sampling period which made the polls somewhat problematic. (Kelleher and Gavin as candidates in one and then Gavin dropping out in the second). RedC and Ireland Thinks use a panel based approach which is in effect a sample of a sample of the electorate. Ipsos-B&A uses face to face polling which is generally considered more accurate. To get a reasonable view of support, it would be necessary to look at the support for the candidates in the two methodologies. The Irish Times hasn't published its poll (Ipsos-B&A) yet and may do so towards the end of next week or the week after.

    Connolly has what the Americans refer to as "the big mo". She has the momentum behind her camapign and the various negative stories pushed by the media (Syria, Wallace and Daly, Eirigi) have not affected it. Even that rapist smear backfired terribly on FG. The Humphreys campaign is getting increasingly desperate. It simply hasn't caught the electorate's imagination. Compared to Connolly's well thought out replies and presidential poise, there's very little that Humphreys can do to compete. It is almost as if Humphreys was the FG candidate to compete with Gavin rather than Connolly with FG having written off Connolly too early.

    Post edited by jmcc on

    Regards…jmcc



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