Israel/Palestine Thread

Have you heard about the settlements in the West Bank? Did that begin two years ago? Israel can do no wrong in your eyes can they? There can be two monstrous regimes in this conflict. But you are under such delusion that because Hamas are bad, Israel must automatically be the good guys? Have you seen how many civilians have been killed in Gaza since October 7th? Their lives are clearly worth less to you. Shameful.

way OTT here. Israel are far from good in all this. They have done plenty bad things.

But, as predictable on this thread, if someone isn’t hell bent on painting one side (Israel) as bad bad, you get responses like yours!

I'm finding it very difficult to understand the logic of your post here. Your view is that, in a situation where the far stronger party is powerful and aggressive, it is imperative that the weaker side acquiesce to the demands of the stronger?

I'm sorry but it's pretty difficult to take this kind of view seriously. Can you elaborate on this view please and perhaps give us your thoughts on what the world would look like now if throughout history we had always taken the view that one must invariably acquiesce to superior strength and higher aggression?

it’s not at all difficult to understand. To end the killing asap, it’s imperative that Palestinisns in Gaza (who Hamas terrorists are controlling) agree to the plan put forward by the U.S. and Israel.

You cannot have a terrorist organization in Gaza fudging/demanding and putting the possibility of an end to the killings at risk.

Israel won’t give an inch here if they think Hamas are going to continue resisting. So, for sake of peace and the sake of Palestinisns, do what you’re told..

this is about the here and now. Not the past.
Some people think the Palestinisns (under Hamas) should resist and dig their heels in as regards this peace deal. That attitude will only prolong Israel’s attacks.

What specific proof have you that Israel is"financing terrorist and criminal gangs"

What is terrorism?

There is no "plan". There is no "peace deal". If you want to talk in realpolitik as it would seem you are trying to do, then let's call this what it is: a list of demands which have been unilaterally determined by the party which is doing all the killing, all the bombing and all the destruction. The Palestinians have been given no agency in formulating this "plan". It is a list of demands containing vague watery terms which in absolutely no way addresses the underpinning fundamental aspects of the conflict and key parts of which have already been determined by the Israelis as not being accepted on their own end. It is a diktat — not a peace deal — containing nothing but the insisted parameters set by Israel in order to relent on the entirely one-way destruction and carnage it is inflicting on the Palestinian people who are incapable of any meaningful form of self-defence never mind offensive capability.

By all means, Hamas should engage with the Israelis and whoever else in order to protect people as far as possible, but the terms on which this is being conducted are the terms of conquerors over conquered people — not the terms of a just, lasting peace.

Who runs the Gaza Health Ministry ….. are they reputable sources of this kind of information?

They are all in Hamas Brendan. Hamas are funding them. I sent you the proof. Are you trying to say it is somebody else?

Israel was founded by terrorists, run by terrorists. Carried out multiple car bombs, assassinations, attempted assassinations, including of an American Ambassador, kidnappings, torture.
I heard a spokesman for Netenyahu on the Pierce Morgan podcast yesterday react in horror and disgust about Hamas holding on to the bodies of the dead. Who does that, right?

Israel retains hundreds of bodies of Palestinians, some from the 1980s, even the body of a 14 year old boy.

All lies again though, same as their claim to be carrying essentiual baby milk has not become "Oh it was never about delivering the aid, it was about breaking the siege" - as though letting empty boats through has ever broken any siege!

Anyone who still believes anything the "flotilla" claims after that performative on should consider that their claims that they were fed insect-ridden food in prison is impossible because Israeli prisons have religious both staff and prisoners, for whom an insect infestation requires that the whole kitchen be closed down, deep cleaned and then re "kosherised". Also that not only is there no evidence that they were mistreated - or that there were Israeli drones, something the Tunisians, no friends of Israel, explicitly denied - but Greta has made no official complaints after leaving Israel about allegedly having been mistreated.

Or the fact that not only did she post a photo of a starving Israeli captive of Hamas as evidence of genocide (well she was inadvertently right there) but she didn't have the honesty to admist her mistake much less draw any conclusion from it about why Israel are fighting in Gaza in the first place. Instead she just deleted it quietly.

But yeah, you go on believing all their nonsense. I'm sure it's out of the goodness of your heart that you're so completely fooled and not anything more sinister.

Separately: how many victims of genocide celebrate the date their alleged genocide began on with speeches about what a glorious victory it's been for the "victims"?

Netanyahu has already said there will be no Palestinian state. Now, it's bad enough to call any of this a "peace plan" or a "peace deal" but it's worse still in a debate of its merits to cite an aspect of it which the party proposing it has already said it will not uphold. Netanyahu has also stated that Israel will not acquiesce to the involvement of the Palestinian Authority in the governance of Gaza — another aspect of the so-called "peace plan". The parameters for the withdrawal of the IDF from Gaza are also sketchy at best. There is nothing in the "plan" which provides the foundations for sustainable peace.

This is a far bloodier, more deeply rooted conflict than we had in the North. And yet our GFA — an actual proper agreement in which all key sides had proper agency and the backing of reliable guarantees — was a more substantial fit for purpose document than this utterly ludicrous back-of-a-stamp "plan".

If I am going to be presented with this nonsense moralising that "if you don't support this deal you support more killing" then it would seem fair game to me to simply say that it's highly convenient to talk ethics on deals to stop the killing when it's the Israelis deciding the parameters on which they will stop doing it at their own convenience. If you have not called on Israel to immediately stop their campaign of violence against Gaza every single day they have waged this war against a region which has no capability to wage anything like it in return, does that mean you support killing? Or is the moral definition of supporting killing only to be applied against those who disagree with you?