Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

phog · 01-10-2025 08:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123868303#Comment_123868303

Where are you reading my expectations of Tier 2 countries travelling.

Last year there was a discussion around having an A game in Belfast or Limerick and the replies here was because the coaching ticket wanted it near the national squad, hence why I said it was odd that Ireland are touring.

Would you agree that's it not a regular thing to have a national team playing at home while an A squad goes on tour

RichieRich_89 · 01-10-2025 09:17PM

Pity it's only a single A game. They've found it difficult to perform in one-off games with the scratch nature of it. The last two A games were no shows and comprehensive defeats, and the first game against the Maori in 2022 was disappointing whereas they managed to turn things around in the second fixture. And there are no provincial games for non-internationals to play in for a whole month during the AIs.

I guess if the main squad looks something like:

Looseheads: Andrew Porter, Jack Boyle, Michael Milne

Hookers: Dan Sheehan, Ronan Kelleher, Gus McCarthy, Tom Stewart

Tightheads: Tadhg Furlong, Finlay Bealham, Thomas Clarkson, Tom O'Toole

Locks: Tadhg Beirne, Joe McCarthy, James Ryan, Cormac Izuchukwu, Thomas Ahern

Blindsides: Ryan Baird, Cian Prendergast

Opensides: Josh van der Flier, Alex Kendellen/Nick Timoney

No. 8s: Caelan Doris, Jack Conan, Gavin Coombes

Scrumhalves: Jamison Gibson-Park, Craig Casey, Ben Murphy, Caolin Blade

Outhalves: Sam Prendergast, Jack Crowley, Ciarán Frawley

Left wings: James Lowe, Jacob Stockdale

Inside centres: Bundee Aki, Stuart McCloskey, Hugh Gavin

Outside centres: Garry Ringrose, Robbie Henshaw

Right wings: Mack Hansen, Tommy O’Brien, Calvin Nash

Fullbacks: Jamie Osborne, Jimmy O’Brien

(Gee, Henshaw really looks out of place there. I'd say all of Farrell, Hume and Postlethwaite would be better options at 13)

…the A squad might be along the lines of:

Looseheads: Jeremy Loughman, Paddy McCarthy, Alex Usanov

Hookers: Diarmuid Barron, Stephen Smyth, Lee Barron

Tightheads: Jack Aungier, Sam Illo, Scott Wilson

Locks: Darragh Murray, Evan O'Connell, Diarmuid Mangan, Harry Sheridan

Blindside: Max Deegan

Openside: Nick Timoney/Alex Kendellen

No. 8s: Sean Jansen, Brian Gleeson

Scrumhalves: Nathan Doak, Fintan Gunne, Matthew Devine

Outhalves: Harry Byrne, Jack Murphy

Left wings: Shayne Bolton, Diarmuid Kilgallen

Inside centres: Cathal Forde, Charlie Tector

Outside centres: Jude Postlethwaite, James Hume

Right wing: Zac Ward

Fullbacks: Michael Lowry, Shane Daly

plus maybe an extra backrower, like Soroka or Boyle or Hodnett or McCann.

Maybe one or two players would drop down from the main squad.

johnh6767 · 03-10-2025 09:25AM

Casey being injured isn’t good hopefully not a bad strain to the thigh.

Mr Tickle · 06-10-2025 10:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123872703#Comment_123872703

Yeah he needs some some meaningful game time for Ireland. It really felt like last year was going to be his chance to jump ahead of Murray during the 6 nations.

daithi7 · 06-10-2025 06:58PM

The Sunday Times headlines from last Sunday the 5/10/'25, sum up the Irish Outhalf debate succinctly for me:

Munster 23 Cardiff 20

'Crowley gives Munster the crucial edge in tight contest'

Bulls 39 Leinster 31

'Prendergast decisions costly for Leinster in mad defeat'

This accurately reflects the quality gap between the two 10s imho. I just hope that Ireland realise this soon.... cos they've already been stupidly backing the wrong guy at the expense of the better 10 for far too long, including a lost 6Ns already, imho!!

Podge_irl · 06-10-2025 07:10PM

There is no quality gap between the two 10s. They simply have vastly different strengths and weaknesses.

daithi7 · 06-10-2025 07:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123883719#Comment_123883719

That's your opinion, it's not a fact, yet you're trying to state it as fact. Kindly try to learn the difference.

P.s. it's a quality thing imho ;)

P.Walnuts · 06-10-2025 07:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123883800#Comment_123883800

Yet your opinion is fact?

Podge_irl · 06-10-2025 07:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123883800#Comment_123883800

Of course it is an opinion. Backed up by 3 successive Irish coaches I might add.

I would not be surprised if Crowley starts in the Autumn, he has started the season better and looks to be more involved in phase play (a massive issue with his playing last season that people just glossed over). It is a close competition between two incomplete players. The wildly successful Irish coach (and his 2 replacements during the season) are not so stupid as to miss such a glaring quality gap.

daithi7 · 06-10-2025 07:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123883804#Comment_123883804

I stated my opinion, as an opinion i.e. imho. Maybe try actually reading the post first, I find it always helps...

Former Former Former · 06-10-2025 07:57PM

Another fact is that playing Cardiff at home and the Bulls away are two very different propositions.

P.Walnuts · 06-10-2025 08:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123883831#Comment_123883831

You got me.

But to be perfectly honest, and in my defence once you tethered your argument to two 9 word headlines I stopped paying complete attention.

daithi7 · 06-10-2025 08:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123883855#Comment_123883855

In my initial post, I did also attach the match reports of both matches which includes analysis of both respective 10's performances in their games. It is yet more corroboration of my opinion that there is a significant quality gap between the two 10s....

Here it is again fyi, enjoy.

P.Walnuts · 06-10-2025 08:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123883883#Comment_123883883

You saw a headline you liked, you posted it, well done you .

Let's just ignore the quality of opposition and circumstance.

Clegg · 06-10-2025 08:29PM

We're also ignoring that Prendergast played quite well at the weekend. If he was missing all his kicks, tackles or failing to dictate play that's one thing. But he was finding space behind to turn the Bulls backfield defence, put runners into space and made some tough place kicks. It wasn't perfect, but that's a performance you should be encouraged by.

daithi7 · 06-10-2025 08:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123883938#Comment_123883938

Jeez... seriously!?, if that's playing well, we have different standards of what playing well is for an international 10.

daithi7 · 06-10-2025 08:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123883921#Comment_123883921

Ehh, no , wrong again for yet a 3rd time!?! Quite a hatrick!!

FYI, I watched both URC games with Munster & Leinster playing in them, both of which I thoroughly enjoyed. I did note to myself the gulf in quality in the performances I observed of the respective 10s mind you.

Then I also read about them in the Sunday Times, who also noticed the performance difference, so much so that they highlighted the respective Irish 10s performances in both their headlines, & their comprehensive match reports.

I attached those same match reports to my initial post FYI , along with highlighting both report's headlines, because they also summarise my opinion succinctly. I posted them on here to encourage open discussion on same…

FYI, here are the video highlights of both games from the weekend for your perusal also. It's interesting to genuine Irish rugby supporters imho, to objectively compare the quality of the respective 10s performances imho. Enjoy!!

Munster 23 Cardiff 20

https://share.google/qhNGDOO8ZU8XCqPeC

Bulls 39 Leinster 31

https://share.google/wXPgDHoVTvueOlM76

Clegg · 06-10-2025 08:57PM

You're just arguing in bad faith now.

Best of luck.

P.Walnuts · 06-10-2025 09:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123884010#Comment_123884010

Care to address my point of different quality of opposition?

No, thought not.

You heard what you liked in a Sunday paper and came to gloat and sh*t upon a young Irish player .

Well done you.

daithi7 · 06-10-2025 09:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123884045#Comment_123884045

Frankly, I don't care to engage with you further at all. Like ever tbh. You've been plain wrong on 3 successive occasions in replying to my posts. You then stupidly jump to hasty incorrect conclusions which, I've painstakingly highlighted for you to correct, or apologise for, or whatever....

And then you follow this triple whammy of own goals by posting an abusive, foul mouthed post with derogatory accusations...

And you then you ask me to engage with you in debate...

"You cannot be serious!?"

P.s. I'll only ever be seeking an ignore button for the likes of you fella, cheerio!!

P.Walnuts · 06-10-2025 09:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123884096#Comment_123884096

Get asked a question twice, fail to answer and bail.

The 101 of brain dead Internet posting.

Bye

DBK1 · 06-10-2025 09:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123883691#Comment_123883691

Surely you’re taking the piss?

Munster scraped a win at home to Cardiff while also allowing them to get 2 bonus points, the same Cardiff who finished in the bottom half of the table last year, didn’t win any game that wasn’t on Welsh soil last season, haven’t won a game on Irish soil since they beat Connacht in 2017 and have have never won a game in Thomond Park whereas Leinster played Bulls, runners up in the URC last season and in 3 of the last 4 seasons, away in South Africa, at altitude and with only about 5 players that you could call first team starters.

What happened in any position on them 2 pitches, let alone at 10, can in no way be used as a direct measure between the capability’s of any of the players involved.

phog · 06-10-2025 10:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123884207#Comment_123884207

Ok so, compare the two players over the last two 6Ns. Relatively the same coaching ticket, group of players, game plan over the two years and Crowley helped Ireland win the 2024 competition.

DBK1 · 06-10-2025 10:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123884301#Comment_123884301

Why? That’s not what the OP I was replying to originally posted about or alluded to.

It’s also been done to death here a thousand times and the reality is, no matter how much it pains Munster supporters to hear it, that aside from his defensive problems, Prendergast is the better all round player to Jack Crowley, and confirmation of that can be seen from the English and Munster men (so obviously no blue tinted glasses involved) coaching Ireland that have consistently selected him over Crowley.

There’s nothing to say that can’t or won’t change at any stage of the season and if it does change then from an Irish perspective I hope it’s because Crowley improves and overtakes Prendergast and not because Prendergast starts regressing at any of the other parts of his game but at the minute it’s the position we’re in.

50HX · 06-10-2025 10:43PM

Crowley came in after the WC & we won a 6N.

SP came in at the AI's as is the perogative of the coach to have a look at an alternative.

What may have surprised people is SP became the starting outhalf on tne following 6N's.

I didn't see him light it up to the degree that he is the better 10, the next 8 international games will tell alot.

Its tricky to compare them at club level as SP will invariably be playing behind a dominant pack & thus more on the front foot.

My gut says Farrell will stick with SP as the preferred 10.

Podge_irl · 06-10-2025 10:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123884301#Comment_123884301

Ok….they both helped their team win 4 out of 5 matches.

sydthebeat · 06-10-2025 10:55PM

Jesus Christ, give me sexton v o gara any day over this shite.

Two young players, neither perfect, both great talents. The cream will rise to the top no matter what slurry is spouted here.

phog · 06-10-2025 10:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123884343#Comment_123884343

Why? Because you don't want to compare who plays who in the league so I thought comparing the one competition that Ireland played in with the two out halves featuring might be more relevant.

phog · 06-10-2025 11:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123884382#Comment_123884382

Well yes, that's probably what Andy said to the lads after this years 6Ns, well done lads we achieved exactly what we achieved last year. Congratulations, so proud of you all.

Podge_irl · 06-10-2025 11:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123884450#Comment_123884450

The difference in Ireland's performance from 2024 to 2025 is one losing bonus point. They would have easily won the 6N the previous year on that score.

Tournaments are complicated, and obviously beyond them being complicated they are not defined by one player and things change year from year. We just about got over the line against Italy in 2025 with Crowley starting. Our worst result against Italy since we lost to them in 2013. I obviously don't blame Crowley cause that would be silly. We were not as good a team in 2025 as in previous years.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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