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Presidential Election 2025

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,697 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    So not even remotely like what is being proposed now. It's scaremongering nonsense and blackens the name of a friendly democratic government and ally of Ireland.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,865 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    God call S, which is why the colleges are flooded with Connolly posters and literature.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭jmcc


    A good point. Neither FF or FG could sacrifice an active TD as a candidate because that would have resulted in bye-elections that FF and FG could have lost.

    Steen, in such an unlikely contest, could even have won against Connolly. The political reality is that FF and FG combined have the support of about 43% of the electorate. That is a minority and despite the lies about FF and FG being "re-elected" to government, the reality is that the only reason that they are in government is because of that grotty deal with Lowry. Gavin is not an FF TD. Humphreys is a retired FG TD. The position of FF and FG is much weaker than it appears and this mess of an election is highlighting the fact. A single FFG candidate might have had a chance at winning. Two mediocre FF/FG candidates will probably knock each other out while Connolly moves on towards winning the presidency.

    Regards…jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Then maybe you can point me to any positive achievement or positive contribution to Ireland from Catherine Connolly.

    All I have seen to date is complaining, whinging and whining and an ability to insult each and every one of our friends.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,877 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    I think a lot of the less politically engaged public saw in the debate yesterday that the radical, unhinged Catherine Connolly that has existed in print media over the past few months bears very little resemblance to the intelligent and articulate Catherine Connolly that exists in reality.

    The Mary Regan article in the Indo was especially bizarre since she seemed actively annoyed at Gavin and Humphreys for failing to land criticism at Connolly which is odd since prior to debate both of them were ahead of Connolly in polling and odds.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,451 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,610 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The build up of arms is similar.
    Build up of arms eventually lead to war.

    Hawks want war because hawks sell arms. The vicious circle even Eisenhower warned about when he too talked of the military industrial complex



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭jmcc


    It is the media bubble effect. Sometimes the people in the media begin to believe that it is their position to tell people what they should think. They are the ones who generally meet the politicians and candidates.

    What happens with these debates is that the electorate gets to see the real candidates without the spin and the filtering from the media.

    Regards…jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    That is one way of describing Catherine's support for Hamas, Putin and Syria.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,610 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That is just propaganda and you have zero examples of her voicing support for any of them.

    How many times have you refused to back it up?

    And no, your blinkered interpretation of what she says is not proof or back up.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It is NOT similar. The facts have been presented to you several times, it is no way similar.

    Not only was Catherine's comparison of modern day Germany with the Nazis disgraceful, it is also wholly inaccurate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,610 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    1930’s build up of arms

    2020’s = build up of arms



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭jmcc


    That is an interesting change. Beaker is quite a good journo. The change is in how the media are beginning to think of Connolly as "president".

    Previously, she was just another far Left no-hoper who would probably get the combined support of SocDems/PBP/Labour. SF endorsing her changed the dynamics of the election. I think that Martin wanted an FF versus SF battle in this election. It doesn't seem to have turned out the way he expected.

    Regards…jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Not one of those is an achievement for the people, they are her personal achievements.

    What did she do as Mayor of Galway other than cutting ribbons for the people?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,451 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Are you trying to distract attention away from your suggestion that he should get recognition for his public service record while the rest of the dedicated public servants get diddly squat?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 31,065 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Putin is a bad faith negotiator, warmongerer and an autocrat, there can be no doubt about that. Ukraine has every right to resist an imperialist invasion by force. And yes, Europe did make efforts to stop the invasion before it happened, but Russia pushed ahead anyway.

    But I can't get behind the idea there is no negotiated path out of this. I can't get behind any idea that the endless stalemate of a war is a positive outcome for Ukraine. Ukrainians, in an increasingly large majority, want negotiations to happen. And yes, ordinary Russian civilians are also paying the price for a quagmire war their leaders are waging.

    European leaders need to meet and speak with Putin and senior Kremlin figures, because the war isn't ending without them, as despicable a human being as Putin may be. They can't rely on Trump to get the job done, because he's widly inconsistent and seems to change his mind on any given day (or whatever leader has kissed his ring most recently). There needs to be some acceptance that compromises will need to be made, but every single diplomatic effort should be put into achieving the best outcome for Ukraine. Deterimined, committed peace talks have the power to halt conflicts, as has been seen throughout history (including on this island). Again, no doubt Ukraine talks would be incredibly difficult and complicated - but what's the alternative to stop the destruction and death?

    There have been some efforts at meaningful peace talks over the last three years, but few of them have made much in the way of meaningful progress, and have usually stopped well before the leaders have gotten involved. Stopping the war rarely seems top of the European agenda - even hint of momentum following the recent meeting of leaders in Washington seemed to have fizzled out swiftly. Nobody (well, other than Russia and its closest allies) want Russia to walk away with Ukrainian land or 'victory', but at some point Europe will need to talk to them because there's no sign of Ukraine 'victory' being on the cards either. And honestly, Ukraine has already been forced to cede many of their extremely valuable resources to the US and Europe in exchange for continued support - so it's not like Russia is the only party in line to gain materially from this war either. Nor did the enlargement of NATO - part of a much broader and long-simmering proxy battle for power between Russia and the West (the US particularly) - begin with the invasion of Ukraine, though NATO interests are deeply entwined in the conflict.

    3.5 years in we seem no closer to an actual resolution. I don't think it should be considered a fringe or 'unrealistic' opinion for a politician like Catherine Connolly - again, who is consistently anti-war and anti-militarist - to voice concerns about how all this has played out and the West's response to it, because an end to the suffering and death is exactly what she wants. For me anyway, advocating passionately for peace on a national platform is a sign of strength, not weakness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,717 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I'd argue that this is a bad faith argument in favor of CC's position here which is clearly taken advantage of by the likes of putin and his ilk, lest we forget your position on Biden, only to see trump driven horrors in gaza and curtailment of Ukraines defence, naive positions can and do make these situations worse.

    If those deficiencies were acknowledged, you could then try and build a compelling argument in favour of CC's position but as it is, recent history has left your opinion without merit.

    And I know that's harsh, but otherwise we may see the same naive arguments continually repeated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Good style, alarming substance. Why is anybody surprised she can speak well and behave herself for an evening? Paris is well worth a Mass.

    Post edited by Ardillaun on

    Do I contradict myself?
    Very well then I contradict myself,
    (I am large, I contain multitudes.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Thank God the Germans are waking up and taking the threat of Putin and his fascists seriously at last.

    Do I contradict myself?
    Very well then I contradict myself,
    (I am large, I contain multitudes.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    The problem is that Putin has no interest in genuine peace as we would understand it. As long as he leads Russia, any negotiated settlement would merely be a stepping stone to full Russian dominance of Ukraine.

    Do I contradict myself?
    Very well then I contradict myself,
    (I am large, I contain multitudes.)



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,468 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    But I can't get behind the idea there is no negotiated path out of this.

    Which is a very understandable human response. But it's the unfortunate truth.

    Yes, Ukrainian want negotiations to happen. Ukraine have offered a ceasefire and negotiations multiple times. The US has attempted to broker this. The EU has steadfastly backed whatever Ukraine wants. Every single time Putin has declared that his preconditions for a ceasefire and negotiations are the withdrawal of Ukrainian forces from the 4 oblasts he claims - which would mean abandoning millions of Ukrainians, abandoning all of their defensive positions and most importantly giving up a large city across the Dnepr for them to just strike again. It is both not remotely thinkable to agree to but when that is polled it is obviously completely unacceptable to the Ukrainian people. This is to say nothing of the Russian demands for a new government and a demilitarisation.

    European leaders have, even while everything is going on, tried to talk to Putin. They have tried to discuss with the Kremlin. They have been rebuffed. There is a narrative being pushed that efforts at peace aren't being made and they are simply not true. Connolly is either misrepresenting this or, more likely I think, simply paying no attention to it. She has a narrative she wants to push and doesn't much care about the details.

    Also Europe, as far as I am aware, have made zero preconditions on their support of Ukraine. They have ceded no valuable resources to us.

    even hint of momentum following the recent meeting of leaders in Washington seemed to have fizzled out swiftly

    They "fizzled out" because Russia, when offered the ceasefire backed by the US and Ukraine, responded with their largest ever assault of drones and missiles into civilian areas of Ukraine where they cold-bloodedly murdered dozens of men, women and children. Putin simply does not want peace. He wants to break Ukraine and he wants to fracture Europe.

    For me anyway, advocating passionately for peace on a national platform is a sign of strength, not weakness.

    I'm sorry but it is a sign of delusion in the current circumstances.

    If Connolly actually wanted to take a lesson from the 1930s, it would be from the German encroachment on the demilitarised Rhineland. The German troops were under orders to retreat if any British or French forces moved to stop them. But nobody did. It just emboldened them to go further, and by the time the Sudetenland came along the other powers realised they were not in a position to stop them so they let them at it. Then, finally, WW2 and all that encompassed broke out and there was no possibility of a peaceful way out (though god knows, some people still advocated trying). Unfortunately, delaying confronting this encroaching menace led to the deaths of tens of millions of people.

    Sometimes evil exists. Catherine Connolly, under the guise of being anti-war, is essentially advocating for it to run rampant over those she wants left defenceless - and doing it from what I find a pretty gross high horse. We all want there to be a better way out, but history and current events tell us that sometimes that simply is not possible. The lack of peace in Ukraine is not from want of trying, it is from the entirely one-sided efforts. Nor is it from maximalist demands from the Ukrainian side. They demand full withdrawal obviously, that has to be their starting point. But it is not a precondition to talks. Russia respond to every peace overture with indiscriminate bombings of civilians - this is simply who they are.

    Germany is advocating passionately for peace - they want this war to end every bit as much as anyone else. But they are doing so while trying to protect Ukrainian children from going to bed and not waking up because a missile has been fired into their bedroom. I find it fairly offensive that Connolly presents herself as the only one who wants peace in the region - Ukrainians and their supporters would like nothing more. But as long as they are being indiscriminately attacked, the least we can do is not disparage those who are trying to give them the means to survive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭jmcc


    The media seems to be in shock over how well she performed. They had spent so much time recycling the FFG spin about Syria and Gemma O'D that they never expected her to be presidential and never expected the FF/FG candidates to be that bad.

    Post edited by jmcc on

    Regards…jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,871 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    Martin could have had Bertie Ahern standing for him but despite being capable of doing a deal with the rogue politician Lowry (as he called him), he couldn’t countenance Ahern.

    He’s made two huge political mistakes in my view and I think it’s going to cost him and FF big time, not just in this Presidential election but in the much more important upcoming General Election.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,871 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    The media are behind the curve. They’re not connecting with and certainly not influencing anyone under 35 in this country. They’ll still scaremonger about Sinn Fein and what the PIRA did in the 1970’s while these younger people, well educated and hard working but still struggling to buy a house.

    The media will catch up when things turn. They’re way behind the curve. Fintan an example of well past his sell by date.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,222 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Why do you keep trotting out this story about keeping Steen off the ballot ?

    She is a highly unpopular person despite her obvious intelligence because of her dogma and religious inspired views . Even her ex partner in arms so to speak Michael McDowell could not bring himself to support her nomination. She didn't get the required number to support her nomination , end of .

    People aren't that myopic either that they would vote for someone like her after her ' performance ' in debates before Repeal.and the ME referenda .

    Only a pack of religious nutters like herself wanting Ireland to row back to the 1950s , oh and a few antiimmigration troglodytes would vote for someone like her and I am thinking those characters are still a minority here in this country .

    The drive by FFG was to keep any other potential candidate out it is true , because as it is the government vote will be split by those other two while CC will hoover up all the rest and will get transfers probably as well .

    I wish there were another reasonable candidate because my floating vote is still very much up for grabs .

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,697 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It's not remotely similar and it's been explained to you why multiple times.

    But let's say for some mad reason Poland, or the Baltics, or Finland decided to do away with their defence forces, leave NATO, "oppose war" etc etc - then Vladimir comes along and starts making territorial demands.

    What happens then?

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    They write a nice letter to Putin asking him to kindly desist from his actions and if any of them are left alive, they appeal to the UN to do something.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,697 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    That's a completely ludicrous idea. Bertie Ahern is unelectable and with very good reason.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 31,065 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Sorry, but I'm very confused in what way this is "bad faith" - feel free to call it naive if you wish, but my arguments in support of Connolly are made honestly and earnestly. My position on Biden? Trump is a disaster for Gaza, but so was Biden - just because the former is worse doesn't forgive the sins of the latter. Despising Donald Trump - which I wholeheartedly do - does not mean I am willing to give the Democrats a free pass for their many weaknesses and failures. I make no apologies for that.

    While the US has certainly taken advantage of Ukraine the most with a clearly one-sided rare earth metals deal, that's something France has also been seeking an interest in for their own defence industry. Though perhaps not to the same 'accept this or else' bullying way the Trump admin presented the "deal" to Zelensky.

    Anyway, I very much appreciate your engagement but I don't think we're going to reach any agreement on this. I'm more than happy to accept the Russians are a major factor in the lack of any meaningful peace discussions so far with their unrealistic red lines. But I personally don't think we're going to see any end to this war without Ukraine and Europe entering peace talks with them - which I personally don't think Europe has pushed strongly enough, even accepting clear Russian beligierence. I wish very dearly Ukraine gets the best possible peace deal and like everyone I would be sick to see Russia rewarded for an act of overt aggression. But as things stand I struggle to see an end to the war without some form of negotiated settlement - and certainly that seems to be what a considerable majority of the Ukrainian people want to see as well.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,410 ✭✭✭jmcc


    The problem with Martin is that Ahern would be seen as the real leader of FF. He is a threat to Martin's position as leader and Martin would never have allowed him to run as the FF candidate. For all his shortcomings, Ahern is a much better politician than Martin. He would also have reminded people of how FF crashed the economy.

    Regards…jmcc



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