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Israel/Palestine Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,055 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Netanyahu has already ruled out a Palestinian state today so that bullet point is just more lies.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Site Banned Posts: 4,164 ✭✭✭Oíche Na Gaoithe Móire


    From what I can see this is just another imposed 'peace' by Trump and Israel, with an ultimatum to blame Palestine and bomb Gaza more when it won't be accepted because it contains nothing concrete.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Is there not a chance, any time Israel decides, to stop this? It is a genocide afterall, not a war. They are mass murdering civilians. Read the UN report good lad.

    This deal was concocted by the U.S. and Israel, and not negotiated with Palestinian representatives, before being announced, with a short deadline for acceptance. Is this not worrying to you? This isn't a deal, it is an ultimatum, under threat of continuing genocide.

    Do you think when mass murderers annear criminals in Israeli government are imposing choices on vulnerable populations without safe, enforceable protections and accountability, that maybe outcomes could range from long-term political dispossession, to outright extermination? Or why do you argue this is all above board?

    This ultimatum is lacking:

    • Palestinian participation
    • Independent, international monitoring
    • Robust and enforceable security guarantees
    • Clear accountability mechanisms - warcrimes investigations etc.

    I am also left very very skeptical wondering why the horde of posters who have supported ethnic cleansing and warcrimes against Gazans all this time, some of the most morally bankrupt people I have ever been in communication with, have now suddenly done a complete 180 and are now advocating for their safety of Gazans and the war to stop. It's a weird one. Why y the change of heart Blanche?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    In your mind, does the proposed peace deal require the full withdrawal of Israel from Gaza and allow for the establishment of a fully independent Palestinian state?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    Saucony walk away from Israeli sponsorship, they don't want to be tainted by the genocide.

    US sports brand Saucony has ended its sponsorship of the Jerusalem Marathon - a race that cuts through illegally occupied East Jerusalem - following boycott calls from running communities in the UK who accused the company of "sportswashing" Israel's war on Gaza.

    A spokesperson for Saucony confirmed to Middle East Eye that the US sports brand had ended its sponsorship of the Jerusalem Marathon and taken its logo off the marathon's official website.

    "At Saucony, we believe running is a powerful force for connection. One that brings people together across backgrounds and beliefs," said the spokesperson.

    "Over the past few days, we've listened closely to concerns from our community about our sponsorship of the Jerusalem Marathon, and after thoughtful consideration, we have made our decision to step back from our sponsorship position."



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I have never defended any Israeli atrocity.

    As it stands, the only person convicted of killing an Irish peacekeeper is a Hezbollah fellow traveller of Hamas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,027 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Well the difference is that this plan has been endorsed by many other middle eastern countries, including Qatar. Perhaps an indication that even hamas' benefactors want this to end now, leaving them with little choice but to accept.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I have never supported ethnic cleansing or war crimes.

    This deal is exactly what Hamas should have done on October 8th, as I repeatedly said. This was always what a peace deal would look like. There is nothing more morally bankrupt than complaining about a peace deal in order to save the skins of terrorists.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The GFA contains a process where a united Ireland can be achieved if people agree to one. This deal goes further as the necessary actions are within the purview of the Palestinian people. The only thing that the Palestinians are losing with this deal is Hamas so the only reason to reject it is to save Hamas.

    "While Gaza re-development advances and when the PA reform programme is faithfully carried out, the conditions may finally be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian self-determination and statehood, which we recognise as the aspiration of the Palestinian people."

    "Practically, the IDF will progressively hand over the Gaza territory it occupies to the ISF according to an agreement they will make with the transitional authority until they are withdrawn completely from Gaza, save for a security perimeter presence that will remain until Gaza is properly secure from any resurgent terror threat".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,027 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    More lies. Nobody supports "ethnic cleansing and war crimes against Gazans" and I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find any post advocating against the war ending at any point, until the past couple of days that is. Weird.

    As many posters have said repeatedly, and been attacked for, hamas could have ended this war at any time by returning all the hostages but the truth is, they dont want the war to end and want more people to die.

    I bet if you asked any regular gazan whether hamas should accept this deal, they would say yes. Meanwhile, keyboard warriors thousands of miles away say no



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  • Site Banned Posts: 4,164 ✭✭✭Oíche Na Gaoithe Móire


    And what duress are they under I wonder.

    2 countries call the shots (literally), Israel and the USA.

    That gathering of generals in the US and the language used was sobering, on a lot of levels. A throwback to a bygone era. Israel are rogue and God knows what direction the US is taking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The deal is basically release all the hostages and handover Hamas, which is what should have happened years ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,197 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Palestinians have chance now to end their suffering, or at least halt it. They have to take the deal, end Israel’s manic attacks/killings, and negotiate. Anybody advocating that Palestinians reject this and “tough” it out cares not a jot about Palestinians, but more just hates Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,229 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    You are utterly delusional if you dont think this ends with a Hamas surrender and disarming. They've a few days grace .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,128 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Hamas are hardly fellow travellers. One Sunni, the other Shia, on opposite sides of Syrian civil war.

    A Hezbollah member was convicted of killing an IDF soldier solely because even a proscribed terrorist organisation is more accountable than the IDF.

    No IDF soldier has ever been prosecuted for killing UN peacekeepers.

    When Israel killed Corporal Dermot Mc Loughlin it claimed, like in so many Israeli killings that it would conduct a full inquiry and share it with the Irish government and family of the Irish peacekeeper they killed.

    Surprise surprise Israel never published its inquiry, or shared it with the family or government if it even took place.

    So Blanch are you going to continue to defend the Israeli killing of Irish peacekeepers?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    When somebody, post after post, is engaged in smearing the victims as boors and barbarians, slandering people opposed to genocide as antisemites, robustly denying warcrimes/ genocide, is incapable of condemning when asked dozens of times a single act carried out by the IDF against Gazan civilians - and then refuses to read the UN report outlining genocide and famine (whilst still partaking in the above activities) - what other pov can people take other than you are in full support of these crimes, but are too cute to say it aloud?

    Or did we all misunderstand you all along?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,128 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    What do you think will happen if Hamas don’t comply with 72 hours? Carte Blanch for genocide.
    The IDF have not defeated Hamas after 2 years.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Denial of warcrimes in the face of irrefutable evidence/ manmade famine / UN declarations /declarations by almost all independant human rights groups / almost all media and independant medical professionals in Gaza, whilst trying to slur those who have been saying this all along as terror supporters/ antisemites = support of warcrimes, in my book

    You can no longer claim ignorance.

    If you don't want people to think this about you, adjust your pov in line with reality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    what's Catherine Connolly got to do with this?

    And you might just explain exactly what "control" anyone (other than the IDF) is exerting in the rubble pile that is Gaza?

    Perhaps you believe there are regular weekly council meetings on bin collections, potholes in the roads, the state of the health service or the latest planning applications? All held with copious servings of red velvet cake? You did post recently how fat the Gazans looked didn't you?

    And whilst NI might be a hot button for you, it's irrelevent.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,665 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    I mean Hamas gets better PR from dead Palestinians. If the war keeps going Hamas can just keep blaming and demonising Israel.

    Hamas will never accept peace, it goes against their interests.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I think Viktor Orban is a fan so Hungary is in the mix.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Good points.

    The ICJ can only issue judgements against States, not individuals. So the ICJ are considering the SA Genocide case against Israel (which has been enjoined by other States including Ireland). The ICJ has no formal penalties it can issue - only directions. But they have no enforcement ability.

    The ICC can only prosecute individuals - currently Gallant and Netanyahu who are both at large and wanted for War Crimes and crimes against humanity An individual cannot commit Genocide but the ICC warrants do use the language of genocide in describing what crimes they have strong evidence for re gallant and Netanyahu. The ICC can penalise individuals and imprison them in The Hague.

    As far as I'm aware, there is no "bargaining" with the ICC or the ICJ. There may possibly be room for plea deals with the ICC but I'd imagine they are very narrow in scope and would not include simply nullifying any charges already made.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,128 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Dead children are just victims of a Hamas propaganda war PJ, is that it. The people dropping the bombs on the children sleeping in tents are the real victims.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,907 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Hamas could have ended this any time in the past 2 years by surrendering. They've chosen not to and its easy to understand why:

    1. They have tunnels to hide and they get first dibs on all the aid that comes in.
    2. Their quarrel with Israel is a fight to death.
    3. The longer the war goes on, the more the Western Left, who is carrying their water, can use it as a cudgel against Israel.

    For that reason, I don't expect Hamas to accept this deal.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    The IDF commander in the Netzarim corridor ordered his troops to kill anyone in the military zone as they could only be Hamas. He accused anyone riding a bicycle as a Hamas spy and the sniped on sight.

    We know the IDF executed medics for being "Hamas operatives" and most recently, the journalists filming from the hospital - Hamas spotters…

    Effectively, they are killing any and all Gazans because they have been told time and time again that "there are no innocents in Gaza". So as far as they are concerned, medics, Press, aid workers, the 1000 children who didn't make their first birthday, neonates in incubators, nuns and even sheep are Hamas and deserve to be exterminated.

    Pure Genocide - though some deny it even now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    If Gallant or Netanyahu get immunity from prosecution by the ICC, it is the end of the ICC.

    Whether he ever gets to The Hague is debatable. All signatories have a legal duty to execute an ICC arrest warrant (the us is not a signatory nor is Israel). A couple have said they won't - by far the majority have said they will (including Ireland) or have average question away as "hypothetical" so not answerable.

    Bear in mind, he doesn't have to land in a signatory country - if he flies over, his aircraft could be ordered down and then he can be arrested. Or his aircraft might need a forced emergency landing because of a "technical issue" etc.

    I'd imagine he puckers up every time he gets on an international flight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    You may not realise how telling this post is.

    Just swap Israel and Hamas around and perhaps that's the most honest answer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I don't think the entire Israeli cabinet is supportive - convicted terrorist Ben-Gvir's dream of Mediterranean sea front apartments would evaporate - can't see him or Smotrich voting for it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,128 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Israel could have ended this by complying with international law. Instead it decided to murder men women and children in a genocide. A genocide which will remain a stain on ZIonists and their genocide denying, genocide supporting sycophants everywhere.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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