Israel/Palestine Thread

I could accept that. Palestine has Gaza, the West Bank, and everything north of the horizontal line. That would keep Palestine joined with the refugee camps in Lebanon and Jordan. Israel has room to purchase the Sinai from Egypt.

Countdown time for humanity against Israel

The Global Sumud Flotilla (GSF), dedicated to breaking the illegal Israeli blockade of Gaza, has announced that the mission is around four days away from the besieged enclave and will enter the high-risk zone within two days.

Meanwhile it could be this week that Uefa ban Israel from competitions organised by Uefa. The thugs from Maccabi will have to fight other zionist thugs in Palestine.

Uefa is expected to avoid trying to block Israel from World Cup qualifying as the European governing body considers measures against the country’s football association.

Under plans being worked out by Uefa that are expected to be voted on by its executive committee (exco) this week, the Guardian understands Israel would be banned only from competitions that Uefa directly controls. That means the Israel men’s and women’s national teams would be excluded from the Nations League and Maccabi Tel Aviv would be removed from the Europa League this season.

The World Cup, however, is a Fifa competition, for which Uefa organises the qualifying format and fixtures within Europe. This is done “in collaboration” with Fifa but only subject to the global governing body’s approval.

If he does scupper it- as he did with the deal back in March, it will be ignored and all the blame will be put on Hamas. Did Bibi commit to a two state solution as part of this plan? Otherwise It would seem the demands are very much all one way.

Whereas what you need to explain is how come the side supposedly committing a genocide has agreed to immediately end operations, offering major concessions, while the side supposedly suffering a genocide still needs to think about it.

Just like the Armenians refused to give back all their Turkish hostages and surrender, or the way the Jews in the Warsaw ghettoes kept all those Germans prisoner inside the ghetto, eh? Oh wait no they didn’t have that option.

Nobody can genuinely believe this is what a genocide looks like. It’s just losing a war but refusing to surrender because they are so radicalised. Like the Japanese civilians who committed suicide rather than surrender - but nobody says the Americans committed genocide against them.

So no explanation or clarification on the nonsense "Hamas supporter" jibes you slander Irish people with? Didn't think so. Just more nonsense q's. Oh well, it's an improvement from the usual running away.

Whereas what you need to explain is how come the side supposedly committing a genocide has

There is no side "supposedly" committing genocide.

the side supposedly suffering a genocide still needs to think about it.

The "side" suffering genocide are civilians. I have yet to hear the world lamenting all the Hamas fighters as victims of genocide. Surely that isn't what you are saying?

People lament the mass murder and man made famine imposed on innocent men women and children, who are being starved, blown up and shot indiscriminately by the IDF, their way of life obliterated. These people have no agency to end this war. It is telling that you don't see any difference between these people and Hamas fighters, Israel certainly don't (none are innocent in Gaza eh).

And again, I have said this before, if those hostages were returned, why do you think the "war" would end? I'm v surprised you are back to beating this drum given Netenyahu said numerous times their release is irrelevant in stopping the war. It was Netenyahu who broke the last ceasefire, remember?? Hostages would have all been released months ago under those terms.

Nobody can genuinely believe this is what a genocide looks like

Can they not no?? Because this is textbook in it's depravity and brutality, in the language of it's politicians, the radicalization of it's populace, and the consistent lies they have been caught out on again and again. Almost every major body specializing in this type of thing, almost every scholar with expertise in this area, Jewish and otherwise, has declared it so. Virtually unanimous. And your sole defence is to what, tell us they are all Hamas supporters or antisemetic? Pull the other one.

Im not sure if your posts are gullible, delusional or deceitful (leaning heavily on the latter though). Up to all the people reading your posts to decide I guess.

I heard part of Netanyahu’s speech on US Proposal (20 Point Plan) at Press Conference alongside Trump:

Hamas hasn’t agreed to the 20 Point Plan yet, or perhaps even sighted it.

I think US will want to say, they tried.

Also, I think Netanyahu has been told that he can’t have the West Bank.

Qatar got a public apology from Netanyahu.

At conclusion, Trump asked Bibi if he would take a question from an Israeli reporter. Netanyahu coughed, and then replied he wouldn’t do so.
..........

Humanitarian aid will be allowed into Gaza by United Nations and its agencies, and Red Crescent. Didn’t Israel say aid was flowing into Gaza.

A news reporter said International and regional stabilisation force will be coming into Gaza - Indonesia has talked about 20,000 troops.

Al Jazeera
‘Here’s the FULL text of Trump’s 20-point plan to end Israel’s war on Gaza’
‘The White House says its proposal would end the war in Gaza immediately if both sides accept.’

By Elis Gjevori
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/9/29/heres-the-full-text-of-trumps-20-point-plan-to-end-israels-war-on-gaza

Excerpts:

• Gaza will be governed under the temporary transitional governance of a technocratic, apolitical Palestinian committee, responsible for delivering the day-to-day running of public services and municipalities for the people in Gaza. This committee will be made up of qualified Palestinians and international experts, with oversight and supervision by a new international transitional body, the “Board of Peace,” which will be headed and chaired by President Donald J Trump, with other members and heads of State to be announced, including Former Prime Minister Tony Blair. This body will set the framework and handle the funding for the redevelopment of Gaza until such time as the Palestinian Authority has completed its reform program, as outlined in various proposals, including President Trump’s peace plan in 2020 and the Saudi-French proposal, and can securely and effectively take back control of Gaza. This body will call on best international standards to create modern and efficient governance that serves the people of Gaza and is conducive to attracting investment.
  [...]
• The United States will work with Arab and international partners to develop a temporary International Stabilization Force (ISF) to immediately deploy in Gaza. The ISF will train and provide support to vetted Palestinian police forces in Gaza, and will consult with Jordan and Egypt who have extensive experience in this field. This force will be the long-term internal security solution. The ISF will work with Israel and Egypt to help secure border areas, along with newly trained Palestinian police forces. It is critical to prevent munitions from entering Gaza and to facilitate the rapid and secure flow of goods to rebuild and revitalize Gaza. A deconfliction mechanism will be agreed upon by the parties.
• Israel will not occupy or annex Gaza. As the ISF establishes control and stability, the [Israeli military] will withdraw based on standards, milestones, and timeframes linked to demilitarization that will be agreed upon between the [Israeli military], ISF, the guarantors, and the Unites States, with the objective of a secure Gaza that no longer poses a threat to Israel, Egypt, or its citizens. Practically, the [Israeli military] will progressively hand over the Gaza territory it occupies to the ISF according to an agreement they will make with the transitional authority until they are withdrawn completely from Gaza, save for a security perimeter presence that will remain until Gaza is properly secure from any resurgent terror threat.

All irrelevant if it’s a genocide.

I mean, the idea that a people being genocided would have the choice to say “We’re not sure we like those conditions, maybe we might prefer for you to continue genociding us a bit longer until we can force you to give us better conditions” is just bonkers.

(And I just do not believe that you “have no idea” about the significance of that hesitation from Hamas.)

A 21 point peace plan that no rational person could object to, on even a single point.

Just wait for a queue of left-wing loonies like Catherine Connolly to line up insisting that Hamas are "part of the fabric of the Palestinian people" and it's not up to anybody else to exclude them from building a future Palestinian state.

Hamas, of course, that band of deep philosophers, need time to contemplate the proposal . . . . and find a way to wriggle out of it.

Peace, jobs, housing, infrastructure, all secondary considerations to destitution and poverty and an ideological bent to wipe Israel off the map.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/revealed-us-21-point-plan-for-ending-gaza-war-creating-pathway-to-palestinian-state/

I suspect the slaughtered, starved innocent people Gaza who have no direct role in this might have cause for concern not least as the fascist IDF will handle security for a period....no consequences for the Israeli war criminals either. It's not the 'left wing loonies' who are at fault here rather the 'centrist' Western governments who allowed this slaughter go unabated. But don't let ideological bias cloud your objectivity!

Interesting too that the Western powers insisted Ukraine should be involved in the discussions on a settlement, rightly so...different standards for Gaza and Palestine but then again it's always been thus...

You should probably explain that to the British government then.

Have to pull you up again - it is a genocide.

Still no idea how all the independent organisations have declared it now no? All a big conspiracy is it (despite what we hear coming out of Gaza, and see piped into our televisions and phones night after night)?

You can make up any little nonsense point you want about Dresden or about Japan or about WW 2 as your crowd are so fond of doing - you can make crass statement like maybe we might prefer for you to continue genociding us a bit longer, but - this is what it is.

You have been defending genocide all along. Some small part of me might have been given you the benefit of the doubt for your ignorance - but now that it's been declared, you are doubling down. I have no doubt the type of person I am interacting with.

Re your point on Hamas, again I'll reiterate - I have no idea what you mean.

If you are having an honest discussion about this conflict, the first view you need to have is to hold participants in this war accountable for their actions - not the actions of the other side, and to look at the actions of each party, ignore the words.

I put agency on Hamas, for the actions of Hamas. I put agency on Israel for the actions of Israel. It makes no sense for one to say the actions of Israel are the responsibility of Hamas, nor is it true the other way around. If Hamas are dithering (and I have no idea what are going on in negotiations no more than you do), that doesn't give Israel carte blanche to blow up as many civilians as it likes, or keep a man made famine going in the interim, and say it's Hamas fault.

You are arguing that this genocide, committed by Israel, is the responsibility of Hamas, when every choice; every bullet fired, every bunker buster bomb dropped on civilians, all the trucks held at the border, every missile fired at hospitals, every man/ woman/ child sniped under the pretense of recieving food, every incitement from those in government to destroy Gazans, has been Israeli and theirs alone.

I would be similarly dismissive of anybody saying hostages held in Hamas captivity or October 7th are the responsibility of Israel, they were the choices Hamas made.

State complicit in Genocide deems it not to be one.... quality...

A deal - as in, hammered out by both sides, or an ultimatum, under threat of continued genocide?

So you weren't done with this thread afterall. It's interesting you quote the UK Government position. They have said it's not for them to decide on whether it is or not , rather that it's up to the ICJ to determine if it's genocide. Which is strange because they seemed to make a determination when they had Government lawyers arguing in a case on the matter that it wasn't genocide. Speaking of the ICJ, if they do determine Israel has committed genocide, you no doubt will say the judgememt is flawed and the court is antisemitic. It will go well with your other ridiculous statements and slander.