Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

kippy · 04-09-2025 08:11AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123783182#Comment_123783182

I don't think some people understand what I am trying to say here.

The scheme is backed by the PET producers and ultimately those that profit most from the use of the containers - at the behest of a weak directive EU wide that ultimately hasn't and won't solve the actual problem which is the reduction in plastics use in containers. All that happens is the "collection" rates may go up (because now they are accurately measured) but the reuse and most importantly the reduce will not improve to any measurable level.

The only way you get change is IF its uneconomical for the producers to use the same containers because either they are paying a higher rate for them OR the consumers are which means consumers look elsewhere for what they might have gotten, forcing producers into a change in how they do things.

This scheme has taken ALL of the responsibility off of both the producers and I'd argue the EU to come up with a method to reduce plastics use and is (as has been admitted by a couple of people) literally just kicking the can down the road (things will get better etc, but it won't)

The scheme itself has been poorly researched, poorly implemented and poorly run if you ask me, but even if it these things were perfect, the ultimate issue is not getting any better, its getting worse.

kippy · 04-09-2025 08:15AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123782646#Comment_123782646

The proposal is straighforward. I've outlined it here.

It'll never happen once the companies that make billions have the lobbying power that they do over law and policy makers.

dxhound2005 · 04-09-2025 09:11AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784082#Comment_123784082

The EU is a collection of countries. All have agreed to reach targets for plastics. They do not have to have a deposit scheme, if they can achieve the targets another way. But many of them have deposit schemes, and more are in the process. Also done by others internationally who have no reason to follow EU regulations. England will get there eventually. If our scheme is poorly researched, poorly implemented and poorly run, then all of the others must be as well.

dxhound2005 · 04-09-2025 09:20AM

And example of a "poorly run" deposit scheme in Australia. According to the locals.

https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/comments/1965bxf/10c_refund_scheme_is_doing_my_head_in/

kippy · 04-09-2025 09:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784212#Comment_123784212

Collection targets are all these schemes are set to meet. Not Reduction, Reusing or indeed Recycling. As such, these schemes are completely pointless, in their current implementaiton of reduction, reuse or most importantly the reduction of plastics use.

The point I am making on our scheme (as many have said) that even as a "best in class" collection scheme, it has very obvious deficiencies and has missed out on a proper implemention that uses the best of what is already out there. It's still a pointless scheme for the environment however - which is my core issue at this point.

I am not sure what your own motives are but you don't seem to like any negativity towards this whole implementation. I am not sure why.

Edit: I just read the link - very familiar complaints…..

dxhound2005 · 04-09-2025 09:48AM

And Irish people are no different than others. Except that those who collect the cans and bottles thrown away by the rich get ridiculed in Ireland. In other countries they are praised.

elperello · 04-09-2025 10:23AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784085#Comment_123784085

It'll never happen because it's a non-runner.

In fairness to you, you have run it up the flagpole but there is nobody saluting.

Of course companies are profitable, they have to be to survive.

Their entire business model and supply chains are built on using too much plastic.

They like it that way and consumers like the convenience.

Politicians and policy makers know this.

Change will come but not with a coercive sledgehammer approach.

head82 · 04-09-2025 10:31AM

Not sure if this 'glitch' is exclusive to my local Tesco but when using the self service checkouts, the Deposit Return is not applied. I only discovered this a couple of weeks ago when purchasing two bottles of Coke. Essentially saving an extra 50c on the cost of the two bottles.

Haven't tried it on multipacks of beer etc. so it may be brand/label specific. Could make for some decent savings if the same thing occurred.

L1011 · 04-09-2025 10:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784466#Comment_123784466

I have seen this happen occasionally, but absolutely not consistently, with anything in any form of discount deal in Tesco Express.

kippy · 04-09-2025 10:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784443#Comment_123784443

Then why play this charade in the first place? It's possibly worse for the environment than the "older" solution, and in any event, nothing at all was tried to tweak the older solution to improve it's chances of success.

A coervicive sledge hammer approach is required. This whole "change will come" nonsense is just that, nonsense.

jj880 · 04-09-2025 10:50AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784247#Comment_123784247

Yes the RVMs near her must be similar to ours:

Today, I went to one which had 4 vending machines, 2 of which weren't working, with a line of 12+ people with bags of cans, meaning it would have been easily an hour wait at least due to how slow the machines are.

But there are lots of queues so by your logic the RVMs must be "popular" just like ours.

However she also got this reply:

Find a bulk return depot. There’s one on Racecourse road in Altona. You literally drive up, dump all your cans and bottles in a hopper and it processes the lot. At the end you get a receipt for the value of your cans/bottles and they convert it to cash on the spot. No need for an app. I’ve been to this one 3 times now. In and out in 5 minutes. It is very well run.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/DQXj9tuobKcGrwbD9

Australia have bulk drop off centres as has been pointed out in this thread many times. It sounds like she didnt know about them. Of course you leave that part out.

kippy · 04-09-2025 12:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784443#Comment_123784443

Just to be clear.

I don't believe adding a 4 or 5 euro deposit fee to PET is a well thought method of getting the producers change their ways, however it is the simplest thing to do with the system we currently have to get the producers to change their ways.

There are obviously other methods of getting to producers change their ways but not when they are the ones:

Lobbying the politicians and lawmakers.
Running the Re-Turn scheme.

Of course companies need to be profitable (they wouldn't exist otherwise) but when you see the scale of profits of the drinks companies however these are companies who are generally making billions per annum using what is a finite and polluting resource to distribute their product. In other industries you'd find companies with some level of corporate responsibility looking to reduce their harm on their environment (doesn't always happen mind) but it will never happen when they can get away with schemes such as this - schemes which are doomed to fail in the ultimate aim.

elperello · 04-09-2025 01:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784481#Comment_123784481

We have discussed the "tweaking" solution before and unless you have a new angle on it I have nothing to add.

It's not nonsense.

Change has to be worked for in the environmental field just as in any other.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123784878#Comment_123784878

Does anyone you have discussed this 4 or 5 euro deposit with think it's a good idea?

It's just an idea that you can short circuit the system but life doesn't work that way.

jj880 · 04-09-2025 02:01PM

Fyi for anyone taking a run up to NI.

24 packs of Barrs soft drinks are £6.49 in Home Bargains and now showing in scope on Re-Turn barcode scanner.

Screenshot_2025-09-04-13-59-49-992_com.android.chrome-edit.jpg

LambshankRedemption · 04-09-2025 07:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123777436#Comment_123777436

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DKCFjm0DvE

Something akin to this might actually be less harmful which when you think about it is frankly nuts.

Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

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