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Northern Ireland 2125?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    None of that changes or affects my substantive point that if people have a Northern Irish identity, it is because they believe in Northern Ireland. Their interest is in Northern Ireland continuing. Whatever outcome offers that will win their vote.

    Keep your head in the sand if you wish, but those who want a united Ireland better wake up to that reality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Was border instillation only attacked by people living in the ROI. Most of the IRA were from the jurisdiction of the UK not the ROI. Can we have a fact check about your claim that only people from the ROI attacked border instillation in Ireland?

    So LV has an aspiration of a UI. So do I as do most people. I also belief a hard border would probably be attacked if it was installed. Am i threatening violence?

    Put it this way. If london and dublin decided tonight to united Ireland without a BP. I would also predict loyalist violence as it breakes the GFA. Am I treathening loyalist violence if london and dublin decided to do a UI without a BP despite being an irish nationlist???



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Are the advantages of NHS health care over the South still as clear as they used to be? There’s been a fair bit of grumbling of late about hospitals and GP clinics up there. Now I know that’s true everywhere but health care in the South has come on by leaps and bounds in the decades since I left for Canada. At the community level I would say it’s better than Canada now. And private care is not all bad. While I was on holiday I was able to get a chronic allergic problem sorted out at Galway Clinic. The appointment was organized instantly. Lord knows how long that would have taken me in Canada.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Of course not but given the utter neglect of our security forces down here you wouldn’t need more than a few hundred fanatics to cause chaos.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    I hope the UI debate will increasingly revolve around money: what would this mean for my wallet? Would I be better off? These are relatively simple questions to take a guess at. The identity stuff should be parked with those who feel most strongly about it in the nursing homes of the island.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Folk down south saying identity doesn’t matter and it’s only old people that care about it really don’t understand life up here at all. There’s over 600 loyalist bands, most of them full of young people. Even at a conservative 40 members per band, that’s tens of thousands out every weekend. On top of that you’ve around 300 big bonfires on the 11th night, never mind the hundreds of smaller ones all over the place.

    The 12th of July alone brings out a quarter of a million people to parades. Just last weekend in my local small town of Newcastle there were over 50 bands at their wee parade, and that’s the same in towns right across NI all summer. The tiny village next to me, Dundrum, had about 10,000 out yesterday in horrible rain, and that’s repeated across ni.

    That’s only one part of PUL identity. I’ve never been in a band and I wasn’t at any of those parades, but my identity still matters a lot to me. So please don’t tell me or anyone else from up here that it doesn’t matter, just because it doesn’t matter to you down south.

    I will be meeting up with 3000 Northern Ireland supporters in Cologne in a few days and I can assure you Northern Irishness is very important to every one of them. 

    Both the Scottish dancing and the Junior orange are growing fast in communities across Northern Ireland. 

    And of course the GAA, Kneecap gigs, Fleadhs etc, show Irish identity the same way, with massive crowds. It cuts both ways. And we haven’t even touched on the huge rangers Celtic scene among young people here

    So I am surprised to see you suggest that identity doesn’t matter to young people. To suggest that it would be good if it was all about money I think is really quite sad - is that what the South has came to? I think you’re in a minority certainly in the PUL Community.  

    There is no doubt that there are many nationalists up here who want to convince Southerners that it is only old people who are interested in PUL culture - that’s just wishful thinking.  Here’s just a couple examples of young people enjoying the marching scene.  The first one is young people waiting for the bands to return from the field and the second is just a parade in progress, but note the size of the band. This is Pride of the Hill, Rathriland. Rathfriland is another little village beside me in nationalist South Down. It has a population of 2,500 and is 50:50 Protestant:catholic. This band, like many recently, got so big it had to split and form a second POTH Old Boys, this is the younger guys in the original POTH.
    any idea that our identity is heading for old people’s home is nonsense




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    During the troubles, whenever border attacks were made by the pIRA, they used a base south of the border to operate from / build the bomb in etc. In many of the attacks at the border they were seen retreating across the border, and the odd time even the command post for detonating the bomb was here in the Republic. the dissident IRA Omagh bomb was made / assembled in the Republic and driven north? Makes sense : less chance of being discovered by the Security services / M15 / MI6 that way, or being intercepted by the SAS.

    Some people take glee in the fact bombs were exploded at the border before and British security forces killed near the border, and they think there was no alternative and it achieved something. Such people saying there would be violence at the border again if there were customs posts there are implying they would support violence again on the border, rather than having customs checks there as opposed to being between mainland Britain and N.I.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    A dozen would be enough. Look at Dessie O'Hare and all the chaos he caused in the eighties. I remember Gardai road blocks all over the country trying to catch just one individual. He evaded capture for years, even though the security services knew all about him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,975 ✭✭✭csirl


    Can you explain how a UI impacts on these cultural activities? Ireland is most unlikely country in the world to stop people celebrating their culture.

    I actually think Scots-Ulster culture will thrive in a UI. Just think of the mileage Failte Ireland will get out of it - highlighting it and trying to tap into the significant Scots Ulster diaspora in parts of the US. Think about the support it will get from the Irish government as one of the most historic and significant cultures on the island. I dare say that the UK government has very little time for promoting Scots Ulster heritage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I wasn’t commenting on how it will be opposed or otherwise, I was simply responding to a suggestion that young people in Northern Ireland are not interested in identity. I found that quite a strange comment.

    If what you say is true, why do they not demonstrate their good will now, instead of pumping £50,000,000 into a GAA pitch.
    I only remember one attempt for our identity to parade in Dublin and the city went into chaos and the parade was blocked. Not a good omen for the future.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    1976- Lol- brit Merlyn Rees surrendered to the IRA giving IRA prisoners 50 per cent remission- which turned a 20 year sentence into a ten year one-

    But then brit thatcher removed that till the hunger strikers in 1981 won it back again- thatcher was a defeated old hag even before the Brighton bomb made her sign the Anglo Irish agreement in 1985-

    Loyalists also went on hunger strike- but could not make it past porridge time-

    Your fellow Armagh unionist the UDR Willie Frazer went on hunger strike till a Mars bar was to much for him-

    The IRA won political wings for all groups-

    But the Provos were the only ones to mass escape from the H- blocks-

    What chicken-sh1t the rest were-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    Well- they have just ran from the jew in Lebanon-( 26 county army-

    There are no loyalist fanatics-

    The Provos executed the UFF leader in 1987- John micmichael- Billy Sh1te Right LVF leader was executed in 1997-

    Loyalists sh1te when confronted-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    recent history would suggest differently:

    The “Orangemen”, who were clearly enemies, were being allowed to walk down “our” streets. They were being allowed to march because the Guards and the government were cowards and/or Free State bastards and traitors.”

    “And yet in truth, they were a small and vulnerable group. Bused into the heart of Dublin – an alien city for them no doubt – they were hemmed into a small street, surrounded by Gardai (who for all they knew may or may not have been friendly) and were being slowly surrounded by hostile groups of young men. You could see the bandsmen start to look at each other nervously.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    It worked-

    The EU prodocol border is between ( Northen ) Ireland and England-

    The Provos removed the 1920 government of Ireland act-

    Read- and then U will know-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,246 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Going forward you need to stop antagonists like Willie Frazier and Bryson being your voice.
    Dangerous, silly and full of hate.
    Frazier’s taunting in the lead up to that parade ensured there was a reception



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    In a democracy everyone has the right to have their voice heard. It is sickening that you think there was "no alternative" to Frazer's relations being murdered by the sectarian pIRA. Well, it was seen as sectarian by many. In Frazer's neighbouring Co. Fermanagh for example, 90% of the people killed there were killed by the pIRA. The fact republicans like you would not allow a victims march shows how sectarian you are, and would not auger well for a U.I.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,246 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,246 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    ….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    I'm quite familiar with Frazer. He is actually Frazer, not Frazier as you keep calling him. He had relations murdered by the military wing of your party, so not surprised you do not like him.

    Are you claiming everyone on a march or parade should be vetted and if their backround is orange at all, they should be pelted with stones and not allowed parade?

    Even Bertie Ahern, a decent and tolerant man, was tolerant of having a victims group parade / march in Dublin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,246 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Been over this many times.

    The organisers deliberately taunted and got what they wanted.

    Frazer has been posthumously found out. There’s enough in the public domain about him to assess who he was.

    You want to hold him up as some sort of victim/hero, don’t let me stop you.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    you see this is what we’re up against. The Republicans riot because they cannot even look at our culture and identity, and still it’s the big bad unionists fault.
    …… and you can share this island as long as you allow republicans to pick your leaders for you - you really couldn’t make it up



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,975 ✭✭✭csirl


    I dont see the relevence of these quotes to people celebrating Scots-Ulster heritage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I was on a bus tour around South Armagh lead by Willie Frazer many years ago with a group of Americans. It was nothing short of shocking.  Some of the Americans appeared traumatised by the account of what happened to Protestants in that area.   Willie had seven family members murdered by the IRA.   ‘If’ he retaliated (as you suggest), it was wrong, and out of keeping with normal unionist practice in rural areas.  

    And unlike Michele, I would say he had Alternatives because I know people who had family members killed in sectarian attacks by the IRA and they did not resort to violence



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,246 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You can try pull the wool over others eyes about Frazer and his ilk, if you want.

    But you won’t do it with me. I know what he was.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    no matter how bad he was he couldn’t have been any worse that Gerry Adams and Maginnis and I don’t here you refer to them as those ilk. You are Classically deeply sectarian and you don’t even know it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    was Gerry in the ira? Or has he pulled the wool over your eyes.
    your posts are sad



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,975 ✭✭✭csirl


    At the moment funding for Scots-Ulster heritage comes fron the UK government. Tbe fact that they didnt allocate 50m to Scots-Ulster activities tells me they dont value your culture.

    I guarantee that multiples of this amount will be invested if the Irish government were responsible . As previously alluded to investment in culture is seen as a positive in Ireland due to the tourism industry. I can see bus loads of tourist going to the Ulster Scots heritage park and attending Ulster Scots versions of Johnny Foxes etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,246 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Adams and McGuinness were/are open about what they support/supported

    Frazer and his ilk hid behind a victims charity to spread their bile and hate.

    Despicable man.

    Give me a Biily Hutchinson any day of the week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    what about some of the biggest cultural events in Ireland. Twelfth, bonfires, siege of Derry parades etc. ?

    ….and exactly how will you ‘guarantee’?

    This is niche stuff you are on about. Where is the Ulster Scots heritage park and who is Johnny fox ?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Really!! Martin Maginnis is open about his support for (and involvement in) torture, assassinations, human bombs, and Adams is open about his support for (and involvement in) burning Protestants alive and hotels, assassinating your women etc?

    You could’ve fooled me - but maybe you were at gatherings where they were more open about their beliefs?



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