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Liverpool FC Premier League Champions 24/25 - Talk /Gossip/Rumours

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Comments

  • #20012
    Lord Trollington
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,428 ✭✭✭Lord Trollington


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762103#Comment_123762103

    The thing with kids is that they can be good enough ability wise but are too young and inexperienced to be consistently good enough at the highest level. Some handle expectations and new found fame better than others.

    The saying exists for a reason. Being good enough is only part of the equation . Being consistently good is the key.



  • #20013
    54and56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,976 ✭✭✭54and56


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762282#Comment_123762282

    Also, at that age they can easily be over played which can damage rather than improve their development.

    A couple of years training with the first team squad every day, watching how Salah, Gapko and Ekitike behave, sitting on the bench watching matches, being in the dressing room before and after games etc will be a huge benefit to Rio and getting minutes when we're 2 or 3 up with 20 minutes to go plus full starts in the FA and League cup will pay massive dividends for both Rio and the club. In 2 years time Rio will still only be 18 albeit one day away from being 19!!



  • #20014
    Osmosis Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,040 ✭✭✭✭Osmosis Jones


    I wouldn't expect to see much more of Rio for a while, keep in mind the schoolyear starts now too.



  • #20015
    McFly85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,680 ✭✭✭McFly85


    I think if we can get a strong understanding from Newcastle that they would be happy to do business in January then the club will wait, and I’m fine with that approach.

    I would prefer to have him for the next 4/5 seasons than giving up and going for a different, probably less suitable player. It might mean that defending the title this year is a stretch but we’d be well setup for the future.



  • #20016
    ~Rebel~
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,407 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762282#Comment_123762282

    The physical toll of man-ball on kids is also huge. Need only look at the number of kids Barca have ruined by heavily relying on them too soon (and we've had a tonne of our own best kids suffer strings of back injuries as they grow too). Better to be cautious and use them reasonably sparingly - only what their bodies can comfortably handle physically.

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  • #20017
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,527 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    I understand the point on the risk to a young player of too much responsibility and overplaying them at a young age, but the opposite is also true where they don't develop if you molly coddle them and don't grow if you don't give them a chance to play.

    Based on what I have seen, he has the ability, confidence and most importantly the composure and decision making.

    Just as a comparison, Raheem Sterling played 36 senior games for us in 12/13. I think he was 17 then, and basically in the starting 11. It did no harm to his development, and he went from strength to strength. Ngumoha won't even be expected to play nearly as much and can be Gakpo's cover and substitute for the most part.

    Also to note Wirtz can play LWF where needed, and maybe Jones.



  • #20018
    Osmosis Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,040 ✭✭✭✭Osmosis Jones


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762463#Comment_123762463

    On the other hand Raheem Sterling is also only 30 years old right now and has been washed up for 2-3 years



  • #20019
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,527 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762471#Comment_123762471

    Yes, but I'm not sure that is due to him overplaying as a kid or not. I'm also not saying that I propose or expect Ngumoha to play as much as Sterling did. He would be having more of a bit part season I expect.

    But if we sign another quality LWF, will that stall Ngumoha's development and give him less chances still?



  • #20020
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,527 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    I would prioritise a CB, and then a striker.



  • #20021
    Osmosis Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,040 ✭✭✭✭Osmosis Jones


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762508#Comment_123762508

    I agree with this, the front line is more malleable in that we can play a winger at striker, or a 10 on the wing etc, but CB is CB and you really need players built for the position. Gravenberch or Endo is fine as a makeshift for 15 mins here and there but they shouldn't be see as a serious option.

    We'll know more tonight hopefully after the Palace game.



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  • #20022
    garra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭garra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762333#Comment_123762333

    Going on recent form, he must be attending a Finishing school in Switzerland



  • #20023
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,310 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762350#Comment_123762350

    It might mean that defending the title this year is a stretch but we’d be well setup for the future.

    I don't think I can get onboard with this take at all. It seems so small time.

    The club should be going balls to the wall to defend our title.



  • #20024
    ~Rebel~
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,407 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762485#Comment_123762485

    Tbh I think there's a very good chance it is. Physically, he's looked a mid-30s crock for 3 years now (from when he was only 27), when modern conditioning should see him in decent shape for another few years yet. I think starting high intensity ball too young - even if you actually do come through it unscathed, unlike the likes of Ansu Fati, Pedri, Pato, and Gavi etc - hugely increases the likelihood of a shortened career.

    I don't think we should necessarily block his path, i'm just talking about being cautious and keeping him to cameos while he's still physically developing (the last kid we overplayed from necessity while he was growing - Bajcetic - missed over a year of ball as a result). Ideally we'll sign another striker, which then lets Ekitike shift between CF and LW, and of course we also have Chiesa who can cover that spot.

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  • #20025
    Bacchus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    On Sterling, I always felt he was being overplayed. Sure he had flashes of brilliance and dazzling runs but it always felt like he was having to punch above his weight in the team. It felt like he was always on the verge of achieving the potential but never quite crossed that line (he was still young TBF). Maybe all that game time was what he needed, or maybe being more conservative with him would have helped him be more settled. We'll never know, and TBH I lost interest in him once he left the club.



  • #20026
    Talisman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭Talisman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123761866#Comment_123761866

    Newcastle weren't prepared to spend £60m on Joao Pedro, they'll hardly splash £80m on Nicolas Jackson.

    I suspect that the real reason for the hold up on agreeing the move to Bayern is that Chelsea will want to include an obligation to buy clause. Leipzig also had an agreement with Jackson last month but they only wanted a loan deal.



  • #20027
    McFly85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,680 ✭✭✭McFly85


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762557#Comment_123762557

    Don’t see it as small time at all. If the club feel that he’s the best option available and have no other realistic targets of his quality, then waiting 4 months is the correct call. Who else is there that we could get right now?

    We could get someone good instead of great, that might help the title defence, but that will affect our ability to get the player we wanted to challenge for the next few years. Isak is a proven 20+ goal forward in his prime, that would be huge over the next few campaigns.

    It’s not ideal waiting but it’s no disaster, as we have some options upfront, even if it means giving youth players some game time. But getting someone in and forgetting about him completely feels like short termism that we’d end up regretting and making out lives more difficult in future. The club can’t go balls to the wall every year.



  • #20028
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,310 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762815#Comment_123762815

    The club can’t go balls to the wall every year.

    Maybe not, but we are the current Champions, so there is absolutely no reason not to go for it this year.

    If we can bring in a player that helps us retain our title it needs to happen, even if it's not the number 1 target.

    "We won't bring him in and that may cost us our title defence this year but it's ok cause maybe we can win it back again in 26/27" is not something that really sits well with me.

    If we're waiting on Isak I'd reluctantly accept it so long as they get an alternative to tide us over until he arrives at a later date. Getting nobody and just hoping that our title defence is still alive come January would be an incredibly disappointing outcome for all.



  • #20029
    Widdensushi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,725 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762886#Comment_123762886

    I doubt that the owners care about what you will "accept" it's quite obvious if the isak transfer doesn't happen this window there won't be another forward signed this window,, there's nothing worse than clubs rushing around for a replacement when they they miss a transfer target with a smell of desperation, signing a stopgap that they are stuck with for the foreseeable.



  • #20030
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,310 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123762938#Comment_123762938

    I imagine the owners care about my opinion as much as they care about yours. 😊

    I was responding to the notion that it's better to gamble our 25/26 season to potentially build a better squad for 26/27.

    Because let's be clear, not bringing in a forward this window is a huge gamble. We are quite obviously short there.



  • #20031
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,695 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    If we get Isak:

    Wirtz/Eketike can play LWF on occasion.

    Chiesa/Frimpong can play RWF on occasion.

    I don't love alot of that though - works better in theory than practice I think:

    • Bradley needs to be fit to free up Frimpong
    • Chiesa still can't start a PL/CL fixture for me
    • Wirtz wasn't bought for LWF.

    Some of the above can be further mitigated if Joe is fit or Rio gets more games then we think he will but still seems risky.



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  • #20032
    McFly85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,680 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Big gamble in what sense? What will our league position be in January if we stick with what we have now up front?

    CB would be a huge issue, one injury and we’re putting midfielders there - definitely think the best of who can be got there is required.



  • #20033
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,695 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    I dont think the focus on Isak is taking the attention away from CB personally.

    Will see tomorrow once Palace have completed their European play off tonight.



  • #20034
    Daemonic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭Daemonic


    I'm hoping the deal for Guehi is agreed, but in exchange for them meeting in the middle on valuation the club agreed to wait until after tonight's game before making the actual bid.



  • #20035
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,963 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    If I had to pick just one of Isak or Guehi, it would be Guehi hands down.

    I don't think scoring goals will be an issue for us this year and I'm happy that between Salah, Gakpo, Ekitike, Chiesa and Wirtz (supplemented by Rio and Elliott), that we've plenty of firepower up front (I know there's AFCON to worry about).

    I do think, as per usual, we are a VVD injury away from disaster.



  • #20036
    rob316
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,983 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Cant see Isak happening this window anyway, Newcastle can't manage to sign 1 single striker. To be honest if I was them, I wouldn't sell, big sales need planning if you want it to benefit the squad, not rush buys. We can revisit in Janurary.

    Get Guehi over the line (most important), I hear Elliot is unlikely to leave and Bajcetic is also staying. Happy to go with that, provided Slot rotates more in the CL this season.



  • #20037
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,695 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    The more I watch back clips from Monday the more i see VVD getting his head to absolutely everything.

    He was excellent and the overreliance needs to be mitigated for sure.



  • #20038
    rob316
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,983 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123763236#Comment_123763236

    He's 34 and there hasn't been one period in his Liverpool career where he dropped off his level. He is the best defender of the PL era, end of.



  • #20039
    Appletart Upsetter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Appletart Upsetter


    My only concern in all of this is that Isak blocks the progress of Ekitike. MNF did an interesting comparison of both players and they are almost identical. I don't see them playing together and don't see Ekitike working on the left really.

    What if Ekitike is better than Isak?

    1000052597.png


  • #20040
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,310 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123763027#Comment_123763027

    Big gamble in the sense that we play with 3 forwards in our starting line up and we have 4 forwards plus Wirtz in the squad who are realistically good enough to start for us. One of those forwards will head to AFCON in December.

    What if Ekitike stops scoring or worse, gets injured? Salah has had an incredibly run of fitness, but he's also 33 now and his game time is going to have to be managed more than it has been previously if we want to get the most out of him.

    We've let 2 regular starters go and only brought 1 in, to stick with this is definitely a gamble. It's a bet on Ekitike's prolificness and fitness.

    It can't really be an either-or for us. We really need a CB and we really need a forward. Both are very important.



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  • #20041
    jem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭jem


    Personally I would, if given the choice sign guehi and rodrygo than Isak



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