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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭Dr Robert


    Listening to the West Cork podcast again. It's very good.

    Save boards.ie by subscribing:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭tibruit


    So contrary to what you said, no photo exists of Bolger arriving alone to check on his horses with the gate still in place. You`ve been peddling misinformation in an attempt to undermine his story that Bailey went up to Alfie`s when Sophie`s remains were still at the scene.

    Bailey thought his visit to Alfie may have been on the 27th. Bolger thinks it was either the 24th or 25th. Bolger says Sophie`s body was still at the scene, implying it was the 24th. Bailey acknowledges he brought briquettes up to Alfie. It is established that Bailey purchased briquettes on the 24th. Leo looks more honest by the day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,580 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    It’s intriguing that Leo and Sally Bolger managed to avoid Sophie on Friday, ok, it was late when Sophie arrived, but also on Saturday for the few hours she was in Schull and Sunday while she was out walking at three castle head, and were totally unaware she was around. Alfie and Shirley were aware Sophie was visiting and never discussed her with the Bolgers? A few things not making sense here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    Well it obviously wasn't the 24th if Bolger only got the call at 4.30 pm.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭tibruit




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    Fair enough, what time did Bailey purchase the briquettes?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭tibruit




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    Bolger is going through the field before the pathologist moved the body. Harbison arrived at 10 a.m. I believe, the body was moved at 11.30 a.m. to cork regional and the post mortem began at 2 pm approx.

    According to Denis O'Callaghan, owner of a small store at Lowertown Schull,

    "Bailey had come into the shop around noon on Dec 24. …… He asked for a new saw blade. He left and went back half an hour later to collect the tool and bought chicken food, two bales of briquettes and a litre of bleach." (Michael Sheridan)

    So he hadn't bought the brickquets before Sophie had been moved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭bjsc


    As I said that photo and the one of Leo walking up the field come from the same roll and are numbered sequentially. The second one just shows the gate more clearly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭bjsc


    I am not trying to question anyone's honesty or dishonesty. I have presented photos and statements from the original file so that people can have a balanced view. I have not made any of this up, it is there in black and white. You are entitled to your opinion just as much as I am to mine. All I have tried to do is address some of the anomalies that you yourself raised. Please don't make this personal.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭bjsc


    Thank you. O'Callaghan and O'Regan, who were both working at Lowertown Creamery on 24th, describe the sequence of events and both say that Bailey did not depart with the briquettes until after 12 midday. A time at which Sophie's body was on the way to Cork.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,927 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    @bjsc honestly, don't bother engaging with this poster!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭bjsc


    Thank you. I am honestly only trying to bring clarity. Not to judge or to speculate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    What happens to the horses, they just don't get fed, they have to starve for a whole day and night? Doesn't seem logical, you're hardly going to let that happen. Did Alfie feed them, or Finbar perhaps?

    Leo says they usually got fed around 9.30 to 11.00, except I guess on these specific days when Sophie is around, quite the coincidence alright. And what was Leo doing all that time between ten p.m. and 4 p.m. If he slept late he was obviously up late. Maybe he watched the same movie as Alfie….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,474 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The horses would feed themselves off the grass on the land they were on, I would suggest.

    How long was the road to closed? I suppose Alfie and Shirley had to take a longer hike to come and go to their house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    Fair enough. I'm not sure of when the next time Alfie or Shirley left after the murder. Were they told to stay put or what, I'd be trying to get away from the place for a while.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Except that the main way in and out of their property led right across a murder site. Did they have to walk a long roundabout way through nearby fields?

    I'm sure it was a very sombre Christmas for them, and indeed all the neighbours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,580 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Google Gemini A.I translation of Leo Bolgers statement posted by @bjsc (*small correction by me on line 2)

    I didn't go see my horses on the day of the discovery. I went there two days later and Sophie's body was still there.

    "I was arrested *stopped (my interpretation) about 500 (five hundred) meters before the barrier by the Police.

    The journalists were there with cameras and Ian BAILEY was there too.

    I spoke to a Garda telling him that I had to go feed my horses. The Garda told me to go around, to go through the back, passing through the fields behind Alfie's house.

    In my trunk, I had briquettes for the fire for Alfie and when I opened my trunk, Ian BAILEY came forward and took a bunch to help me carry them to Alfie's place.

    Ian BAILEY was supposed to be there to do his job as a journalist, but he helped me carry the briquettes.

    QUESTION: How did you find Ian BAILEY at that moment, what was his behavior like?

    ANSWER: He was calm, which is what you can expect. He was in his journalist attire and he had been clever to seize the opportunity to come with me.

    QUESTION: By helping you, Ian BAILEY was getting closer to the crime scene, is that correct?

    ANSWER: Yes, but I think his intention was to get an interview with Alfie and Shirley.

    QUESTION: Was he able to speak to them?

    ANSWER: Yes, but I didn't stay. I left to go feed my horses.

    QUESTION: Do you know if Ian BAILEY tried to get closer to the body?

    ANSWER: I don't think so.

    At one point when we were at the back of Sophie's house, it was possible to see the tarp covering the body.

    Thinking about it, in my opinion we were much too close."

    Leo couldn't have seen the body 2 days later on the 25th. What he probably saw was the tarpaulin that had covered the body. Bailey was at the Christmas swim that day and he was with Senan Molony on the 26th. So Bailey was probably correct when he said he went with Leo on the 27th.

    Bailey didn't buy the briquettes for Alfie, so all that stuff was a waste of your time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭OscarMIlde


    We know that Bailey got into the bed with another women who was staying as a guest of him and Jules, without that woman's consent. We also know that Jules initially attacked the woman as at fault instead of Bailey, who was the one in the wrong.

    There is also testimony from one of Jules' daughters that he propositioned her when she was eighteen years old.

    So I don't think it's beyond the bounds of possibility that Bailey would try it on with another woman and I don't think it's beyond the bounds of possibility that Jules would cover for him. She stayed with Bailey for years, even after she knew he had propositioned her own child.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,474 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    That's an interesting aspect of things. Sounds like he raped her, or was he just in that other woman's bed and she kicked him out?

    I only knew that he propositioned to one of Jules daughters, but not certain if that was ever a serious consideration or not.

    I often thought that if Bailey did it, Jules knew about it. Of course she would have denied that all the time, but she would have noticed, not right away, but over time, seen possible evidence, blood, etc… On the contrary, if so, they both would have had a stronger alibi for each other. Something down the lines like they slept the whole night in bed after many drinks in the pub, never gotten up, he made her coffee in the morning, something like this.

    Also the night of the murder was when all the daughters of Jules were staying over. So Bailey could easily have been seen by any of them when he was leaving and coming at night, so he might have made up that story of going to the studio and typing some article for the paper?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    Bailey was also obsessed with a french journalist so there is that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    On the matter of the" rock " csn it be said that DNA from this is conclusive

    I would need to something definite on bailey if they try to hang it on him again



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    I'd imagine that DNA from the murder weapon must be pretty significant, yes.

    But nobody has been named. They may not even have a name…it might just be from a Mr Somebody Male.

    That information, if it exists, has not yet been published. We wait in hope!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    At this stage with Bailey already being thrown under the bus in life I'm probably hoping dna points away from him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,521 ✭✭✭almostover


    Let's be honest here, if the DNA found on either the block from the pumphouse or Sophie's clothes doesn't match Ian Bailey then it will take sometime for that information to be made public. If that DNA does not have a match then there will have to be efforts to secure DNA samples from people perhaps deceased to find a match. Or if it is a match to someone else then the message from the cold case review will have to be carefully managed because of the the political implications it would bring.

    Anything other than a match to Ian Bailey will mean that the French justice system conducted a sham trial to frame an innocent man. That will take an awful lot of diplomatic wrangling to deal with.

    If it's a match to Bailey there won't be much delay in publishing the result. It will essentially vindicate the initial investigation and spare many powerful political figures a lot of embarrassment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,474 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Bailey made fundamental mistakes as well. He should have challenged that French court with the European court of justice. Maybe he lacked finances or it was a strategic error, don't know.

    The French verdict was clearly a kangaroo court to appease an influencial family and their friends. It was also not evidence based.

    I would personally fear for my life if I was to live in a country where one can be sentenced for murder without any form of evidence beyond reasonable doubt.

    After the verdict, I see France in a dubious light.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 101 ✭✭CuriousCal


    IMG_3427.jpeg

    from the Irish times December 2014 I presume the secret was her extra marital affair, the fact there’s never been another mention of this “daughter” I guess that was a lie too! The woman clearly is a pathological liar and willing to lie about absolutely anything



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "Bailey didn`t buy the briquettes for Alfie, so all that stuff was a waste of time."

    And I hate wasting my time. I acknowledge the briquettes were likely for his own use along with that bottle of bleach.

    "Leo couldn`t have seen the body 2 days later on the 25th"

    True.

    "What he probably saw was the tarpaulin that had covered the body."

    Anyone who watched or listened to a news bulletin would have been aware that the body had been removed on the 24th. It would have also been the major topic of conversation locally. I find it hard to believe that Bolger wouldn`t have been aware of that. That leaves us with his " 2 days". He may have been thinking of the 23rd as the first day and the 24th as the second one. In terms of his recall, the important bit is that he remembered the body was still there indicating it had to be the 24th.

    "he was with Senan Moloney on the 26th."

    Based on what Moloney said about the encounter, Bailey was uncomfortable about approaching the cordon by that point…"Oh no, you`re on your own now." etc.

    "Bailey was probably correct when he said he went with Leo on the 27th."

    The 27th is three days on from the removal of the body. So I`m inclined to believe Leo. Never mind. Every cloud has a silver lining. If they ever find his DNA you can always argue "Sure wasn`t he up there with Leo on the 24th."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "don`t bother engaging with this poster."

    Ah yeah. You have to watch out for those posters who call out bulls**t when they see it. Go look at the photo there. See can you see the gate.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭bjsc


    If I couldn't see it I wouldn't have posted it.



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