Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.

Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed

1408409411413414423

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,270 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Yep totally - while unlikely the bricklayer assuming it was built many years previously it’s not beyond the bounds of possibility - I mean, we’re relying on this technology to essentially find 30 year old DNA as it is



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    Presumably theres no question over DNA profile matching, that science is well established

    The question as above is demonstrating that dna found could only belong to the killer

    Presumably then there will be certain criteria for this eg; DNA on multiple items



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭Dr Robert


    One can only assume that there's some DNA on an item(s) that only the killer could have left.

    Save boards.ie by subscribing:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,270 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    For me it’s more about, assuming the DNA can be linked to a person, either alive or dead, to then determine why their DNA is present.

    If Bailey, then he’d have a hellofa lot of explaining to do- I know he did work on Alfie’s place but he never mentioned bricklaying the shed.
    A neighbour? Possibly an innocent explanation but not a total given.

    Someone totally unconnected to that house or lands? Again like Bailey, the onus would be on them to explain it if they didn’t want a full scale murder investigation on their doorstep.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,474 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Marie Farrell's "sighting" would never have lead to a conviction.

    She's "seen" a man in darkness at Kealfadda bridge, a good 3 or 4 km away from the murder site. Even if she really saw somebody first it doesn't prove murder and second a lot of people were a lot closer that night, including Alfie and Shirley.

    Marie Farrell was most likely sleeping with another man and the police knew about that and coerced her.

    Same as Martin Graham with drugs from the Garda visiting Bailey in hopes of a confession.

    It's just indicative of the Garda corruption in this case.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    If its Bailey AGS and the French will frame it that the case is closed

    There's a lot of potential questions here if it's not Bailey



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    The bricks were washed every time it rained.

    I think the extraction system is likely very good, but there is no doubt it could pick up false positives/innocent people. I think the key is that it will be looking for a common DNA signature across many of the pieces of evidence. I expect it may pick up some innocent DNA on the gate samples perhaps as an example. They are really banking on Bailey's DNA showing up anywhere as this will then be released/leaked, and none of the other DNA traces will matter.

    The researchers will have to catalogue each and every piece of DNA found and determine likelihood of being the murderer, this is where their expertise will lie, and they've done it before many times over. However I don't expect that it will be beyond a reasonable doubt level imo. Even if it is just one persons DNA (and not Bailey), they may decide to re-interview but just not pursue it imo, much like the Kerry babies case.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,927 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The bricks were washed every time it rained.

    They wouldn't have been subjected to the elements once taken into evidence. Also, the cavity block more then likely had a finger or two placed on the inside by the killer. It is also possible (likely?) that whoever built the pumphouse wore gloves when working.

    The stone also used in the killing hopefully has some of the killers DNA which potentially could match back to the block.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭csirl


    The same DNA on the block and SDTPs clothes/shoes would be strong evidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,474 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Yes, for instance.

    However at the moment they were not even able to mach anything from her clothes/shoes to anybody. So that's still unknown as well.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,579 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "The researchers will have to catalogue each and every piece of DNA found and determine likelihood of being the murderer, this is where their expertise will lie, and they've done it before many times over. However I don't expect that it will be beyond a reasonable doubt level imo."

    If DNA is found using M-VAC only, expect a robust challenge in an Irish trial. But it looks like a strong team working on it;

    From the article; " In addition to Bradley, the delegation included Suzanna Ryan, a forensic scientist with Touch DNA who has a strong international reputation and a record of court testimony across many US states. Ryan also played a leading role in solving the Beslanowitch case."

    Let's hope it can be backed up using FSI's own tried and tested system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,270 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    “If DNA is found using M-VAC only, expect a robust challenge in an Irish trial.”

    For arguments sake, let’s say @chooseusername’s DNA was found- how the hell would they arrive at that conclusion if you hadn’t been there?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    They don't

    The science of DNA profile matching is well established. There'll be no question there although Butterly was throwing some shade at mvac

    The questions as previously discussed are around proving how it got there

    And if Baileys is found it'll be presented as a slam dunk



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,927 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The questions as previously discussed are around proving how it got there

    Not so much about proving how it got there but proving that it had no plausible reason for being there (that would hold weight in court).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,579 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    I could have handled the exhibits somewhere along the way over the last 30 years. Profile matching is tried and tested in this country, but DNA harvesting using M-VAC is not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,270 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    OK fair enough- but then surely you’d be on a list of people for exclusion - my point being, if there isn’t a logical explanation why your DNA is on this brick, you’d better be prepared to answer some tough questions- the Vac system doesn’t “invent” DNA- it extracts it- so why should there be a legal challenge?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    Exactly .The Mvac doesn't somehow magic up a matching DNA profile



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    If it's Bailey's DNA found they won't care about going to court, they'll just release it to the press and leave it at that. No further investigation or tribunals about how the case was screwed etc.

    If someone else's DNA is found, I don't think it'll leak, it'll remain undisclosed like the Kerry babies case, and people will probably just assume it was circumstantial, similar to the boot DNA. Likely the DPP will also say that the case has been so bungled that there will be no chance of prosecution imo.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,927 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    If it was Bailey (or someone who is now dead), would they even take it any further? You can't really try someone who is dead



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    The worst outcome is if Bailey has a legit reason for DNA on a block for example and he gets thrown under the bus again , twice, in life and death

    It is a stretch to explain away baileys DNA if present



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 201 ✭✭Mannesmann


    Newspaper says that the new DNA would only have come from the killers?

    If true logically it must be something like mixed with Sophie's blood, hair or similar so dating to the time of her killing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,579 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    It’s not about who’s DNA or where it was found, it’s about how the DNA was collected I’m saying will be challenged.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    But if this testing does produce a DNA profile of someone who is NOT among the familiar list of "possible suspects" -

    let's say, traces were found on the block, the clothing, and that famous shoe. Definitely suspicious!

    Would they be able to say, for instance, "This is the DNA from a male, with blue eyes, curly hair, ancestors mainly from Alaska and Portugal, can curl his tongue and taste cucumber" - in the manner of Ancestry dot com?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,132 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It could depend on how much of a profile is extracted. Sometimes it is a fragment and could identify someone (not uniquely but could match to small number). With the boot they only had a fragment and could identify male and rule it out as a match for Bailey.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    Any challenge to how the dna is collected wont stand up in court

    Mvac is simply an advance on previous methods of collecting DNA

    A DNA match is a DNA match , it won't happen by magic



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 201 ✭✭Mannesmann


    That's the case from what is being reported.

    A source told the publication that testing typically takes a minimum of 30 days.

    ‘It is hugely significant because it [the recovered DNA] could not have been deposited by anyone other than the killer,’ the source said.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,270 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    Butterly has already been out of the blocks saying Mvac hasnt been tested here

    His comments did get me wondering if he's heard something

    Mvac has already been tested in the courts in other jurisdictions and presumably they have the science to back it up



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    Well if 'newspapaper says' then it must be true. LOL.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,579 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Why?, because it's new here and hasn't been tried and tested in this country. All you need is a smart lawyer, out to make a name for themselves, to try to find a loophole and discredit the system. I'm not saying any challenge will be successful, but it's bound to happen.



Advertisement