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Northern Ireland 2125?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    I think UI will happen when it doesn’t matter any more, when we have escaped from our tribal obsessions. The South is a lot farther along on this journey; people from up North have a fair bit of work to do yet. UI is not an issue that comes up every day in the South and I think that’s how we like it. If it did happen, we could be in for some turbulence as a country. Say that serious disorder broke out in the former NI that the former PSNI couldn’t handle. What would we do? Send in the guards? Have the elite units of our amazing army throw a ring of steel around the terrorists? Let’s face it - we’d be on the phone to London begging them to sort it out for us. It is odd that the party devoted to UI down here has been none too keen on having a real army in the South capable of enforcing order up there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,246 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    As said in that German television clip I posted, you need to be prepared for violence.
    That means assessing the threat level regularly and investing in what is needed to contain it.

    Personally I think loyalism is so weakened and lacking in wider unionist support that it would be impossible to sustain a ‘campaign’.
    Why we would not be able to deal with thugs as a UI escapes me tbh.

    I agree with you on current feeling in the south. But that is mainly because FF and FG and FF/FG governments have sidelined it. If a political party gets the formulation of a Plan into a programme for government all will change very quickly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭indioblack


    "I think UI will happen when it doesn’t matter any more…"

    More than 20 years ago an Irish relative asked me when I thought there would be a united Ireland and that was the first reply that came into my head.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You might be underestimating the threat of Loyalist paramilitarism there Francie. Irish Times poll from 2022, suggesting 42% of RoI voters are less likely to vote for a UI in the event of significant Loyalist violence before a poll as to opposed to 18% more likely.

    IMG_2579.jpeg


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,246 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    ’I’ am giving my opinion based on my research of the topic.

    If Loyalist violence was still capable of destabilising we would have seen it by now.
    Much as they talk about, try to muster it over various Never Never Never situations over the last few decades they haven’t done anything.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    “’I’ am giving my opinion based on my research of the topic.”

    Francie doesn’t like poll because it doesn’t go along with “The Plan”.

    “We would have seen by now”

    Really? Sure the British SoS isn’t within an asses roar of calling a border poll, so they have nothing to worry about. The irrational exuberance of these “Ireland for Unity” rallies have left people feeling too giddy imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,246 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Not sure what any of that has to do with the point I made.

    Bit of advice: don’t let opinion polls tell you something if you know the reverse is more likely.
    I have to say the irony of loyalists, before a BP, going into battle with the folk they are loyal to in the hope they’ll be kept, will be a sight to behold.

    They aren’t great at strategy or being on the right side of history but that would be the dog’s doo dahs of a strategy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    “Bit of advice: don’t let opinion polls tell you something if you know the reverse is more likely.”

    As i said, didn’t like poll, so dishes it. At least make an effort to disprove it.

    “I have to say the irony of loyalists”

    As opposed to republican supporters waffling on about “assessing the threat level regularly”. Now THATS irony considering your buddies recent history.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,246 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Not coping very well with the prospect of republicans in power or just talking nonsense for the sake of it?

    . The security forces, whoever they are, will be the law, upholding the will of the majority by democratic means, (not via and artificially created and maintained by gerrymandering and exclusion of eligoble voters majority) loyalists will be acting against the law.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "Not coping very well with the prospect of republicans in power or just talking nonsense for the sake of it?"

    Considering i'll have a vote to cast in any upcoming UI poll, attacking the electorate isn't the best policy tbf.

    ". The security forces, whoever they are, will be the law, upholding the will of the majority by democratic means, (not via and artificially created and maintained by gerrymandering and exclusion of eligoble voters majority) loyalists will be acting against the law."

    Eh, what? You mean the consent of the majority of the people of Northern Ireland?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,246 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    NI - created specifically to give Unionists an artificial majority. I’d have been in it only there is too many Taigs in Monaghan.

    Even that wasn’t enough for them, they changed the system of voting, gerrymandered and excluded voters on property grounds. Hence approx 50 years of one party government.

    Did you not know that either?

    *If I am looking for votes I will ask for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    On the phone to London-?-

    What can the brits do- they could not stop the Provo one tonne bombs taking out English city centres- now the armed brit foreign army no longer patrols our streets- and they won't be back-

    PSNI / Guards can handle the loyalists-

    Loyalists can't even walk home from a church in portadown- they are that weak-



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "*If I am looking for votes I will ask for them."

    Yes, you will. And you'll (or whoever's campaigning for a UI when a poll is called) have to look for my vote. So you'd do well to remember that when the time comes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,246 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I won’t be blowing smoke up folks proverbial just because they can’t cope with the truth.

    Whoever taught some people here history has a lot to answer for.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The more you carry on like this, the more I'm sure I'll be voting no. Jeez Francie, you're a p*ss poor salesman.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,246 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady



    I’m afraid your whole argument has revealed you wouldn’t vote for a UI anyway so I won’t be crying myself to sleep.
    Take care.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Deleted



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Take care too Francie. Like I've said before I'm constitutionally neutral on the whole thing, so I remain to be persuaded of the positives or negatives of either path tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    I am all for pooling resources but if it makes life that bit more comfortable for some people within the PUL community it wouldnt bother me if we continued with two teams. I am a United Irelander, fully committed and looking for compromises and solutions where people might object or vote against unity.

    There are enough obstacles in place, in the grand scheme of things this is small fry.

    I would hope after some time has passed and where a new United Ireland has been established that the FAI could approach the IFA and begin talks on a merger under the IFA ( the original association). If it happened, brilliant, if it didnt our country has been unified and we just happen to have two national teams. To me thats still brilliant.

    Not ideal, but still a far better situation for the island than partition.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just wondering how UEFA would react to a one state two teams proposal. Could they possibly reject it and subsequently reduce the number of qualification slots for the Champions League etc?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,246 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Can’t see UEFA or FIFA accepting two teams but who knows.

    There will likely be a new flag and anthem so an IRFU setup for soccer would work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Well sure look at the UK, one state four teams? Again its not ideal and not what id be campaigning for but if you gave me a vote tomorrow on unity and the deal was we could unite the country but NI would have a federal devolved element from Dublin where the PUL community might retain some things like this I would happily vote for it.

    Id be all for joining the commonwealth, Irish athletes North and South competing together for example in commonwealth games could only help in the establishment of the country. Relations with other commonwealth nations.

    These are all things we really need to thrash out and discuss. I dont know If I am right or wrong but just thinking logically it seems the types of steps that would help to deliver a smooth constitutional change.

    I know many already do compete for Ireland but I think the gesture of being open to the commonwealth would be received well be some of the more reasonable PUL people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    There used to be west Germany and east Germany football teams- i suppose it took a while for supporters to get used to one German team-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Just let the Irish FA going back to running the irish national team and dissolve the FAI. FAI only popped up because of partition while the Irish FA pre existed partition hence its name and why NI also plays in green.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    The law was drink driving, and yes, you do follow the laws of the UK when in N. Ireland, no matter how you identify yourself. Call it "British" law if you want, it is easier to get your tongue around that than calling it "United Kingdomer" law. If in the Canaries you follow Spanish law and pay your taxes to Spain, get social welfare or pension from Spain etc. Even though the Canaries is closer to Morocco than to Spain. You may think that is unfair but that is how it works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    So you think anyone born on the continent of America is American? Try telling that to a Canadian or a Mexican, you may just get a slap in the face.

    Go in to a bar in Hawaii and tell the locals there they are not American. Even though America is thousands of miles away.

    Yet you would have the audacity to tell locals in Newtownards they are not British.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    And what a waste your armed struggle was. It achieved nothing, except drive the communities apart, further apart than they would have been otherwise. Oh, and wreck the economy. Thousands of bombs, kidnapping and murdering industrialists etc tend to do that.

    Your previous IRA border campaign 1956 - 62 achieved the exact same. Another failure. Nothing except grieving families.

    And the previous IRA bombing before that. Another failure.

    Shame on you for trying to justify violence in an earlier post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,246 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Last time I checked I am in Ireland and follow Irish laws.
    If the British want to make a law that makes Irish people British, bully for them, nothing to do with me.

    And when I was at school the people born on the island of North America are North Americans.
    If Hawaiian people identify as Americans, good on them, I respect identities.

    As to your other posts about ‘my armed struggles’ don’t waste your time ryping them. Not debating with that nonsense.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    If you live in Monaghan you follow Irish laws, but if you drink drive in n. Ireland and are caught it is "British" ( call it "United Kingdomer" if you want, but thats a mouthful) law that applies.

    Justr because someone is born on the continent (or call it an island as you think it is an island) of North America / America, you do not call them an American. If you bump in to a Canadian on your holliers and insist to them they are an American, you may just get a slap. Most will not take it well to be called or assumed to be an American, and if some Irishman insists they are American, even less so.

    Hawaiian people give their nationality as "American", and their country as USA. Even though Hawaii is thousands of miles away. They have American passports, pay their taxes to America etc.

    In the same way many in Antrim for example ( a county within sight of Britain / Scotland on a clear day) , or Anglsea, or the Isle of Wight, give their nationality as British and their country as UK. Many have what is commonly known as the "British" passport, pay their taxes to UK etc. Of course if they want an Irish passport, the UK government never stopped them.

    You know I was right about the Republican armed struggles eg the border campaign of 1956-62, and .how they achieved nothing except pain and heartbreak and misery for everyone.



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