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Rent (in an RPZ) that I charge way below the market rate - is it possible to correct this?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 673 ✭✭✭joeyboy11




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Or maybe market forces. Big business and small traders constantly up their prices due to increased costs and consumers pay higher rates. So it must be all suppliers that are greedy money-grabbers as every year we are charged more for everything but I’ve yet to hear the greed label applied to other sectors like education, health, retail, utilities, hospitality, entertainment, travel, sports, or even the government who are past masters at finding ways to increase taxes every year.
    Nobody likes paying more but it’s just a fact of life that prices will go up regularly. But landlords providing places to live - greedy 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭jo187


    No disrespect. But some up the whole issue.

    You don't mention costs, mortgage or any real reason other then other people are getting more and so I want more.

    People will say it just business which is fair to a point. But these are people homes and generations are being destroyed by landlord greed. With the government happily proping them up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,737 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    What many forget is that costs of being a LL have increased substantially. Insurance, property tax, maintenance and risk have all increased.

    For someone charging a non market rent v a market rent you are looking at 2-3 months gone in running costs V maybe one and a half month for someone charging market rent.

    5 yearly electrical cert 7-800 euro where 5 years ago it was 400-450, plumber call-out 200 compared to 100, insurance by 50+%, property ta 30-50%, if you have borrowing associated with it interest rates by 30-40% but reducing back at present.

    Finally you have wear and tear. Very few tenants look after a house.like an owner occupier. After tenants move out you need to revamp.

    Some here seem to think it a case of collect the rent and bank it. I just replaced a fridge and microwave in a rental property that is a months rent gone. TBF he painted the living area but I supplied paint and materials another 150 euro. If he moves out or I decide to sell the skips will cost up on 1k

    Looking at the numbers to sell.or leave vacant for 2 years. Property has increased in value. If I got vacant possession it and left it vacant for a couple of years, I have the option of renting at market rates or selling and the house is in scope for the refurbishment grant of 70k.

    Net rental loss after tax is less than 5k per year. So a 10k hit. Risk.is tenant will not vacate and I will have to evict a 1-2 year process as opposed to 6 months. Net rental return is now down to about 2.5% per year compared to what I would net in a sale.

    Most investments funds will return more than that and you do not get a phone call on a Saturday evening that there is a problem with the heating

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭jo187


    I'm not saying your wrong. But they did not mentioned that. Just others are getting more and I wamt some. Pure greed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,653 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    You certainly can become an accidental landlord.

    You could end up with with a property you don't want to live in and don't want to sell.

    That's different to buying a property with the specific purpose of becoming a landlord.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,737 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Most people cannot do the figures as readily as me. Many only feel the pain getting worse every year as the actual income decreases other end up putting in there own money to keep the investment afloat.

    Along with that is the time it takes. Many fail to factor that. I went through 6 months of getting phone call over a tenant by other tenants living adjacent to them and was lucky to be able to evict them.

    It's more than just "some more". Many have properties that are at 40-50% of market rates where the investment is costing them money where 5+ years ago it was breaking even or had a surplus before that.

    I am looking 5+ years down the road and seeing an investment where the running costs could be 50% of rental.income.

    That is the quandary that OP and many like them cannot articulate. It's a business and we should not be treated as charity providers

    As I said the two year vacancy term looks attractive with the option to either sell or rent at a significantly higher rate

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭DubCount




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,192 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Most corporate lets are for short/medium term accomodation. If it is not the employee's home then it does not have to be registered with the RTB.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭SupaCat95


    @joeyboy11 be careful what you wish for. I used to want to be a landlord. Now I own my own property and sometimes tempted to take in a lisencee now from the Hospital on short term contracts. I think again of RTB disruption to the house, having to change the matress…..screw that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭jo187


    I have no idea why you done this mental gymnastics to defend someone who you didn't know who openly admitted to just wanting more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,737 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    There is no mental gymnastics just cold hard figures.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭jo187


    Well for one, he want's to jack up the rates, he didn't let at lower rates, as he said he just took his eye off the ball and now it's caught up to him.

    The only thing stopping him is the regulations. Those limited laws have done something, I be on the street as my LL would put the rent up to "market value" and I have no where to go.

    Of course the broader issue dates back to the crash. The government stopped building social housing and construction industry collapsed. The government moved social tenants in to the private rental market. Add in the slow down in building new houses, and tighter regulations to get a mortgage and this how we are in this mess.

    If the government built social housing and could move those tenants out of the private rental market it would free up a lot of rentals. I don't believe rents would go down massively, after all people are making massive profits it might a little, but people would have more freedom to move around.

    Instead we get approved housing bodies and the scam of cost rental. It's 25 per less rent then market value, but Market value is already massively inflated, so the group that these schemes are suppose to help can't even qualify to apply for them.

    People who love to use the terms' like it's not a charity or Tesco don't reduce the price of bread so why should your rent be any different.

    No one thinks that rent should be free, they just want a fair price. The biggest expensive for most people is their rent, god help those that are single or have kids. Plus the cost of everything else rising. This have lead to people having a reduction in the amount of kids they have or even having kids because they don't have their own home and can't afford them.

    This will have a knock on effect down the road when we don't have the younger population to look after the older ones.

    It having an effect now, with people living the country, as they don't have anywhere to live and don't see the point of staying, leading to teachers, nurses shortages etc.

    To use the "bread" metaphor. Yes if I went to Tesco and could not afford the bread, I won't not except them to give it to me for free.

    But I have the choice of going somewhere else and getting it cheaper. I can turn to friends/family. I could go to a charity if that bad. Hell I can make my own bread.

    These option's are not open to renters. What ever comes up, isn't going to be cheaper then where you are, you are in fear of you rent going up or the LL selling up. As there is nowhere to go.

    If you believe rents are low you are either a landlord or not living in the real world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭jo187


    I know Bass, but the OP in his own post, said he wants to get more because others are getting it. He never mention costs. He has stated this. You decided it must for these other reasons, to avoid accepting that greed exists and a Landlord is being greedy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Phat Cat


    It is possible for a landlord to 'carry over' rent? My nephew moved into a one-bedroom apartment in Dublin 2 years ago, the rent was not increased last year, but now the landlord wants a 4.4% increase this year after serving a 90 day notice. I thought it was capped at 2% per year?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Have you noticed how expensive it is to get trades for maintenance and repairs now? They have not just gone up by 2% per annum the past decade. They skyrocketed. Landlords are not charitable organisations where no profit needs to be made to justify the enterprise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,783 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Yes. There's a calculator that shows the permissable change, and it compounds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Phat Cat


    Yes, the landlord had the calculations on the RTB document, but we were under the impression that it was still capped at 2% per year, and that any 'carry over' increase is for tenacines in new RPZ areas that were added in June.

    The rules on when a landlord can do a rent review are different depending on when the area became an RPZ. 

    If you are in a new RPZ area (that became an RPZ in the last two years), your next rent review for an existing tenancy can only take place two years after your last rent review. 

    The RPZ calculator cannot tell you if a rent review is allowed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Not a landlord and have family and friends who rent or recently bought so I’m very aware of the high rents and crazy property prices. I agree that not building social housing has had a detrimental effect on people who rely on state support to access homes, and has also impacted hugely on supply of private rentals.

    Also agree that rents and rules should be fair, but it has to be fair for both parties. Landlords have to meet legal obligations for tenants, but if costs are increasing, and rents are not even keeping up with the CPI, that doesn’t seem like a sustainable situation for small landlords (similar happening in childcare and small restaurants).

    I don’t agree with high rents for poor standard accommodation or just because it’s market rates when the property clearly doesn’t deserve it, and if a rental is older, or smaller, or located with poor access to transport and civic services, then it should be cheaper than a recently built premium A rated property. Just like there’s a big difference between a two star b&b vs a five star hotel, the same principal should apply to rentals IMO so renters have choice. But that needs more supply than we have now.

    The proposed changes for March looks like more tinkering with the rules which could speed up more small landlords leaving and more tenants losing their accommodation which is a depressing outcome.

    Larger landlords seems to be where the market is going and maybe that’s the solution, ie fewer suppliers with standardisation and strictly enforced terms and conditions - like the RyanAir model so everyone knows upfront where they stand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭DubCount


    Nobody thinks rents are not too high - they are. However, they are not too high because of "greedy landlords". They are too high because of bad government policy.

    If you dont like the price of bread in Tesco, you can go elsewhere. Thats competition. It puts a break on inflation because if one supplier gets out of line with their pricing, there is someone else you can change to. There is no competition in the rental market, so no break on rent inflation. All that government interference has driven out LLs (mostly the nice guys not charging as high as they can), and killed competition.

    The best thing that could be done for the rental market is deregulation. Get rid of RPZs, mindless bureaucracy and endless changes to legislation. Allow quick eviction for non-paying tenants. Tenants might not know it, but this regulation is costing them a fortune by discouraging Landlords being in the market, and killing competition.

    I'm a former LL. I sold up when a change in circumstances meant I couldnt subsidise rent any longer. My tenant would have paid higher rent to stay, but legislation stopped us making an agreement. I just invested elsewhere, and my former tenant became homeless. The pro-tenant legislation made little difference to me, but had a big impact on my tenant. I guess that has played out hundreds of times across the land.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,192 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Yes it is. You put the following information into the RTB site and it spits out the max increase

    • date last set
    • amount last set


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭jo187


    Competition is not coming any time soon. So there is no real solution for people stuck other the help of Mammy & Daddy. Which not everyone has. I know on here people think the rules are in the favour of tenants but trying being a tenant.

    Living in fear of rent hikes/ or LL selling/ or doesn't want to deal with you. We avoid having to deal with our LL, it's done through a property agent. Our cooker went this year, we went four months without telling them as it's always an issue dealing with them. We told them and they got a new one pretty fast. They have a guy who does this work for them.

    Three times he no showed. I called them and explain what happened. I was told very aggressively, that I had to be more flexible and he be there when it suits him.

    A month later and different lad was to come out to do something in the flat, he had also cancelled on me two times before, I had to cancel on him with two hours notice. I

    t's not great, but something came up in work, what could I do. I was down on hours with the times I taken off being there the past month for these workers visit.

    I got a warning e-mail from the agent saying that "I cancelled at the last minute and it was something I did all the time."

    I rang her up and asked what was she on about. I cancelled once with two hours notice, but had been stood up five times by her workers on issues with the flat. No other cancellations on my part, so I had no idea what she was on about.

    She didn't really response and I sent her an e-mail showing all the text from her workers saying they would be there at a time and not showing up. No response about that either. I believe this e-mail was them showing who's boss.

    You may think RPZ are no good. But my rent would be double. When they raise the rent they have to use three examples to justify it. They always use two bedroom much bigger apartments. I am in a small one bed. I brough this to the RTB who were useless. Once I am gone, I have no doubt this place will be on the market for double. Before all say the "rules" who the hell is checking this stuff? Really.

    People can talk about regulations, but if the LL wants you out they will. You can wait two years and a case to RTB and maybe it will go your way. But fat lot of good that will do you, when your homeless and your life is in tatters.

    The reality two generations are screwed due to the crash and the government handling of it and going back to the original post the OP wanted to increase rent, because others are getting more. No mentions of cost etc. It's just greed, don't be afraid to say it. They can charge what they want and if you can't afford it, the tax payer will cover the rest. Great system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 908 ✭✭✭Mr Disco


    a lot of moaning folk could afford to buy if they gave up spending on lottos, beers, fags and Santa Ponzas



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17 burgerKev




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    What some people never seem to take into account is that being a Landlord is an investment, not all investments are immediately successful and have to make profits for the investor, some go up, some go down, that's the risk of investing. Some LL's believe that they must immediately be making money, rent should cover mortgage, all expenses and make them a profit on top of this.

    While the LL might not be making a profit immediately, once their mortgage is paid they'll have an asset worth hundreds of thousands that has cost them very little to acquire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭jo187


    I don't know if you putting me in that group? I don't gamble, drink or smoke. My holiday this year was a one day trip to Manchester.

    A lot more folk could afford to buy if there rent was lower and they could save more for a deposit.



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