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FPN and nominating another driver

  • 22-08-2025 03:52PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 155 ✭✭


    Received a FPN from a Go- Safe . Nominated another driver who was driving from the States. Gardai now looking for boarding pass, airline ticket of driver which I don’t have and not going to get it. Anyone else hear of this? How will it end?



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,426 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    It seems like a reasonable request TBH. If you know them well enough to give them your car, can you not get them to provide proof they were driving?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,138 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Boarding pass/ticket don't prove the other person was driving, though. All they prove is that they were in the country at the time.

    Tbh I would have thought such a request would be a bit of an overreach from the Gardai - have they any legislative basis on which to ask for it? Not proof of driving as such - although I'm not sure how anyone would have such proof anyway - but asking to see a boarding pass and airline ticket just seems to be likely to be on dodgy ground from a data perspective. I may be wrong, though, obviously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭Eggs For Dinner


    Ignore their request, just take the points and put it behind you



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 710 ✭✭✭AnRothar


    Common scam to nominate someone outside the country.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/fianna-fail-councillor-speeding-3679390-Nov2017/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 374 ✭✭carfinder


    How will the OP "take the points" if he already nominated another driver?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,400 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    OP,

    Was the other person actually driving?

    What's is your own points situation?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,486 ✭✭✭Allinall


    They’ll have to if the nomination isn’t accepted.

    Do you really think you can just nominate Mickey Mouse from Florida and not expect to back it up?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 155 ✭✭Gallee


    Ok Pick forks down folks. It’s a simple question. I got 3 reasonable replies and 4 posters in judgement mode. It could have been as simple as my brother was home from Texas at a family funeral and was driving my car the result of which I have an FPN that is his but I am not paying or accepting the points. Not all is as simple as it seems. The forum is legal discussion right?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Why can't you get the boarding pass or ticket details from your brother?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭Eggs For Dinner


    Well, "legally", if you cannot verify that another driver committed the offence, the penalty reverts to you as owner of the vehicle. The Gardai have set the parameters for verification.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,426 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    You got your answer early on so. You can't just say it was somebody else without verification. You can't say it was somebody who lives abroad without proof they were even in the country at the time, let alone driving your car.

    The Gardaí have asked for the necessary proof. That you can lend someone your car but can't get that simple proof is your problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,138 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Genuine question, though - how does anyone prove someone else was driving their car in this scenario??? I use Mr. DH's car the odd time instead of my own, but how I'd ever prove I was driving it at any given time should I ever need to is beyond me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,426 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Being an Irish licence holder you can just admit to it and take the points. Mr. DH can't just say it was his brother from the US driving. Even if the brother says it's true he'd need to prove he was in the country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 710 ✭✭✭AnRothar


    how does anyone prove someone else was driving their car in this scenario

    By providing their driver number.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,138 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    That still doesn't actually prove anything, though?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,010 ✭✭✭HBC08


    In that case can't the OP provide his brothers driving number? Assuming of course he has an Irish license



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 710 ✭✭✭AnRothar


    I suspect that's the hub of the problem for the OP.

    His brother may no longer have a valid Irish licence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,439 ✭✭✭gipi


    Is a photo taken by the speed van/camera? That would probably identify the driver as male or female.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,368 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,192 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    The process is simple

    • you nominate someone
    • they get the notice
    • they accept the points / fine OR they deny that they were driving, and you get the points / fine.
    • if you disagree who was driving, the driver gets the points / fine, unless they go to court and can prove it was the other person (or someone they lent it on to, for example), in which case after court, the points / fine will go to that other person.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 248 ✭✭Noworries!


    Presumably he has/ had some type of insurance cover while he was speeding around, would that be sufficient proof? Probably just be easier to take the points, if he is refusing to accept responsibility. It might just look like you're lying to avoid the points, which could end up in more serious charges being brought.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,854 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    If they were not the one driving the car and were not in the country then presumably they could seek to charge you with attempting to pervert the course of justice. A UK cabinet member was in a similar situation and both he and his wife (who accepted the points) served prison sentences. While those offences are now statutory so there may be divergence between Irish and English law, I’d be surprised if ours was significantly different.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,854 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    They are contacted and asked to sign a document admitting it was them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,192 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Directly from the statute book, I added the bolding.

    "(7) Where a registered owner is giving or sending in accordance with subsection (6)(b)(i) the name and address of the person who was driving or otherwise using the vehicle concerned, the onus is on the registered owner to be able to show proof of giving or sending the name and address. In a prosecution for an offence under section 40 (2) in the absence of such proof it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown, that no such name or address was so given or sent."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,960 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I think the relevant provision is Road Traffic Act 2010 s. 35(6), the relevant parts of which read as follows:

    Where—

    (a) a fixed charge notice is served on the registered owner of a mechanically propelled vehicle . . . and

    (b) the registered owner of the vehicle was not driving . . the vehicle at the time of the commission of the alleged offence . . .

    the registered owner shall—

    (i) . . . give or send . . . a document in the prescribed form . . . stating the name and address of the person who was driving or otherwise using the vehicle . . . and

    (ii) give or send . . . such other information within his or her knowledge or procurement as the [Guards] may reasonably request for the purpose of identifying, and establishing the whereabouts of, the person referred to in subparagraph (i).

    So, in this case the OP has been requested to provide information for the purpose of establishing the whereabouts of the person said to have been driving the vehicle. The OP must comply with the request unless the information is not within their knowledge (i.e. they don't know it) or not within their procurement (i.e. they can't get it) or the request is unreasonable.

    OP should ask the driver for the information the Guards want. Either the driver will produce it, in which case the information can be passed on, or they will refuse, in which case OP can reply to the Guards saying "Sorry, I tried, but I can't get the information you want". Communication with the driver should be in writing (e.g. by email) so that a copy of the exchange can be given to the Guards to show that an attempt to obtain the information was made, and was refused.

    You don't haved to prove that someone else was driving your car. You just have to tell the Guards that someone else was driving, and then assist as required in identifying/locating that person.

    If the Guards suspect that, despite your protestations, it was actually you driving the car, it's up to them to prove it. But if your story that it was some other person turns out to be obviously bogus, that may form part of a case that it was actually you; why else would you have lied about it?

    If you send off a notice saying, e.g., "my brother Joe, who lives in Florida, was driving" and that information is, to your knowledge, false or misleading, that's an offence under Road Traffic Act 2010 s. 40(6) for which the maximum penalty is a fine of €2,000. If you own up immediately when challenged, that's probably the only charge you're looking at. But it sometimes happens that, when that first lie is questioned, people double down and tell further lies, getting deeper and deeper into a hole, e.g. by involving someone else to back up the initial lie. At that point you are looking at a charge of perverting the course of justice and, depending on the circumstances and on how big a mess you've got yourself into, possibly other charges.

    (There's an ex-judge in Australia whose reluctance to accept and pay a $77 ticket for doing 60 km/h in a 50 km/h zone ended up costing him a three-year prison sentence, disbarment, public humiliation, and the complete destruction of his career and reputation.)

    Post edited by Peregrinus at


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    I had a brother who received an FCPN for speeding. The photo showed the rear number plate. He let it go to court. A reminder came a few weeks before the court case showing the driver in the front seat. It would have been very difficult to claim anybody who did not look very like my brother had been driving.



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