FPN and nominating another driver

Gallee

Received a FPN from a Go- Safe . Nominated another driver who was driving from the States. Gardai now looking for boarding pass, airline ticket of driver which I don’t have and not going to get it. Anyone else hear of this? How will it end?

Jim_Hodge

It seems like a reasonable request TBH. If you know them well enough to give them your car, can you not get them to provide proof they were driving?

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123745163#Comment_123745163

Boarding pass/ticket don't prove the other person was driving, though. All they prove is that they were in the country at the time.

Tbh I would have thought such a request would be a bit of an overreach from the Gardai - have they any legislative basis on which to ask for it? Not proof of driving as such - although I'm not sure how anyone would have such proof anyway - but asking to see a boarding pass and airline ticket just seems to be likely to be on dodgy ground from a data perspective. I may be wrong, though, obviously.

Eggs For Dinner

Ignore their request, just take the points and put it behind you

AnRothar

Common scam to nominate someone outside the country.

https://www.thejournal.ie/fianna-fail-councillor-speeding-3679390-Nov2017/

carfinder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123745499#Comment_123745499

How will the OP "take the points" if he already nominated another driver?

kippy

OP,

Was the other person actually driving?

What's is your own points situation?

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123745792#Comment_123745792

They’ll have to if the nomination isn’t accepted.

Do you really think you can just nominate Mickey Mouse from Florida and not expect to back it up?

Gallee

Ok Pick forks down folks. It’s a simple question. I got 3 reasonable replies and 4 posters in judgement mode. It could have been as simple as my brother was home from Texas at a family funeral and was driving my car the result of which I have an FPN that is his but I am not paying or accepting the points. Not all is as simple as it seems. The forum is legal discussion right?

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123746383#Comment_123746383

Why can't you get the boarding pass or ticket details from your brother?

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123746383#Comment_123746383

Well, "legally", if you cannot verify that another driver committed the offence, the penalty reverts to you as owner of the vehicle. The Gardai have set the parameters for verification.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123746383#Comment_123746383

You got your answer early on so. You can't just say it was somebody else without verification. You can't say it was somebody who lives abroad without proof they were even in the country at the time, let alone driving your car.

The Gardaí have asked for the necessary proof. That you can lend someone your car but can't get that simple proof is your problem.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123746526#Comment_123746526

Genuine question, though - how does anyone prove someone else was driving their car in this scenario??? I use Mr. DH's car the odd time instead of my own, but how I'd ever prove I was driving it at any given time should I ever need to is beyond me.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123746877#Comment_123746877

Being an Irish licence holder you can just admit to it and take the points. Mr. DH can't just say it was his brother from the US driving. Even if the brother says it's true he'd need to prove he was in the country.

AnRothar

how does anyone prove someone else was driving their car in this scenario

By providing their driver number.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123747024#Comment_123747024

That still doesn't actually prove anything, though?

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123747024#Comment_123747024

In that case can't the OP provide his brothers driving number? Assuming of course he has an Irish license

AnRothar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123747189#Comment_123747189

I suspect that's the hub of the problem for the OP.

His brother may no longer have a valid Irish licence.

gipi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123746877#Comment_123746877

Is a photo taken by the speed van/camera? That would probably identify the driver as male or female.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123748523#Comment_123748523

Might be a twin brother.

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123746877#Comment_123746877

The process is simple

• you nominate someone
• they get the notice
• they accept the points / fine OR they deny that they were driving, and you get the points / fine.
• if you disagree who was driving, the driver gets the points / fine, unless they go to court and can prove it was the other person (or someone they lent it on to, for example), in which case after court, the points / fine will go to that other person.

Noworries!

Presumably he has/ had some type of insurance cover while he was speeding around, would that be sufficient proof? Probably just be easier to take the points, if he is refusing to accept responsibility. It might just look like you're lying to avoid the points, which could end up in more serious charges being brought.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058422475/fpn-and-nominating-another-driver

If they were not the one driving the car and were not in the country then presumably they could seek to charge you with attempting to pervert the course of justice. A UK cabinet member was in a similar situation and both he and his wife (who accepted the points) served prison sentences. While those offences are now statutory so there may be divergence between Irish and English law, I’d be surprised if ours was significantly different.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123747039#Comment_123747039

They are contacted and asked to sign a document admitting it was them.

3DataModem

Directly from the statute book, I added the bolding.

"(7) Where a registered owner is giving or sending in accordance with subsection (6)(b)(i) the name and address of the person who was driving or otherwise using the vehicle concerned, the onus is on the registered owner to be able to show proof of giving or sending the name and address. In a prosecution for an offence under section 40 (2) in the absence of such proof it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown, that no such name or address was so given or sent."